Dogma replaces math skills

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Dogma replaces math skills

Postby Dennis King » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:13 pm

Any wonder why Merrimack has made a 25 % improvement in math skills so now, hurray! only 60% of our graduates can not do math. Read this, it is fine by me to teach them to add and subtract money, even learning how to use a bank account and to balance a check book.

For all of us on the line at Shaws, oh please teach them to count change even if the computer does not tell them what it should be!

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

What is this "values" based money skills.

Needs and wants?

A slot for sharing?

No wonder we are losing the battle here. Stop trying to put in YOUR values to these kids, is it any wonder my kids are now rabid liberals? They did not start out that way but the evils of capitalism is all I hear, just where did this start?

Perhaps this is the key!

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/914 ... andle.html

Here is another story about dogma inside the Bedford High School class on financial management. Parents are so outraged that a new law is being proposed:

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx ... 55376b94b4

Wonder why Johnny can't read? Well all the political correctness indoctrination is getting in the way!
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby Dennis King » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:21 pm

The secret ingredient to gain these second-graders’ attention was a “moonjar” money box with three coin slots: one for spending, one for saving and one for sharing.

Moon jar? :lol: :lol:
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby Wayne » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:36 pm

OK, so what is wrong with this presentation to the second graders? Wants vs. needs, spending vs. saving, sounds worthwhile to me. I take it that the "sharing" concept is what outrages you?
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby mjg » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:51 am

Moonjar happens to be the name of the product.
The name Moonjar comes from the idea of “Shooting for the Moon” and creating Big Dreams, along with the ancient custom of placing hopes and dreams in a jar.


Funny you mention a Fidelity-sponsored event in another "liberals are evil" rant. You can't get any more capitalist than them.
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby RayWhipple » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:03 am

Wayne wrote:OK, so what is wrong with this presentation to the second graders? Wants vs. needs, spending vs. saving, sounds worthwhile to me. I take it that the "sharing" concept is what outrages you?


You liberal! :lol: :lol: (btw I agree it is a good idea)
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby Scott Kepnes » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:17 am

I read the article in the telegraph. I wish I got taught financial responsibility at that age.

Scott
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby TonyRichardson » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:01 am

Scott Kepnes wrote:I read the article in the telegraph. I wish I got taught financial responsibility at that age.

Scott


Maybe they should have an advanced course for the school board and budget committees so they can learn to spend less.

The irony inherent here is almost painful.
Liberalism - What happens when emotional reactions are confused with and substituted for facts and reason.
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby Dennis King » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:10 am

Scott Kepnes wrote:I read the article in the telegraph. I wish I got taught financial responsibility at that age.

Scott


What ever happened to having a job. Now I am a bit unusual in this regard as I started work at the age of Five candling eggs, mucking stalls, and picking crops. I brought home a pay envelope and watched as my mom would count out 10% for the church and the other money went to buy food and clothes. I did get a nickel for me and would walk to the 5 and dime to put my nickel in a popcorn machine that would whirl around and drop the popcorn in the little while bag. Not much for entertainment back then.

By second grade I have a paper route (funny how those went away). Of course there was always "white gold", snow that needed to be shoveled. In my day, very few people had snow blowers, it was hard work and homeowners were eager to give a kid $5 to avoid the hassle. Of course we first had to clear our neighbors houses for free (old retirees) but then is was off to earning money. When I came home, I would take out 10 % for the church. By now, my mother did not have to remind me, it was a habit. Mowing lawns was also a great way to make money but for me, it was harder than most, my dad had an old reel mower and that requires a lot of muscle, especially after it rained.

In third grade I remember Sister Mary Margaret asking if anyone of us knew the value of our education? I raised my hand and said, "That's easy sister, $688 a year, she replied, 'How could you possible know that? Easy sister, I pay the bill!

My parents barely could get the money to pay for the taxes for public school. They did not have the money to send me to Catholic school so I just paid it myself. Nothing to instill the value of an education then to pay for it on your own

By sixth grade, I had started a business cleaning garages (find a need and fill it) Once again, I did the work for free to the elderly people on the block but that was great as it gave me a sample album to show to prospective customers. This business was so successful that I built it up to 5 crews and did only the marketing. My territory was as far as my bike would take me. By the time I was in High School, I sold the business to another kid as this was a middle school business. I was a dishwasher, bus boy, bagel baker, security guard, landscaper, field hand, horse groom, janitor, floor waxer, and cleaned more toilets than I want to talk about.

I knew if I wanted something, I would have to earn it. The only time we got presents was on our birthday or Christmas. Any time we wanted a new hot wheel car or other toy, we either waited or EARNED the money for it. In my case, this meant an extra job over and above what I had to do to support the family.

One thing about my experience with money, the values were not from my school but from my family. Just why do kids get an "allowance". They should have specific chores that are part of what they are expected to do for the family. We really need to look to outside areas where kids can learn first hand what money is all about.

If they wanted to make this learning real, the kids should work hard all week to earn some money. Say each gets $10. Now then you have a person in a suit come and take away their ten dollars, you see he is the tax man and he is from the federal government and of course he is here to help. He tacks three dollars and hands him back seven. Now comes another person and this is a state office who takes another dollar from Johnny and Jennifer. Now there is only six dollars but wait, now the local tax man comes, he takes a buck fifty for the PAYT bag and then another buck to run the town. Now you are left with $4.50. Next comes the chancellor of schools and they want Four dollars so now you are left with only $50 cents for all that hard work!

Now that is a life lesson, of course, then you are asked to put half of it into the "moon jar" for "sharing!

Teach them to count money and leave the life lessons to the parents!
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby quiet » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:06 pm

"One thing about my experience with money, the values were not from my school but from my family."

So Dennis, your objection is that this lesson should be taught by the child's family, not the school? I agree that it should, but I see nothing wrong with it also being taught at school. When I went to school managing a household budget was taught in Home Economics. (Do they still teach that class?) Those of us who already knew how to do that coasted though the lesson those two days, while others learned valuable life skills.

Dennis, can you guess why it's taught in school? It's because some parents don't know how to do it themselves. The expression there would be the blind leading the blind. I'd hate to hazard a guess at how families today don't know how to manage a household budget. I do know that many of them end up on welfare, and that costs me money. I also know that kids learn by example, and many kids who grow up on welfare go on to become adults on welfare. It becomes a cycle. Get it?

How does that cycle get broken, Dennis? By somebody stepping in to teach the lesson to the kids that the parents couldn't teach.
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby RayWhipple » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:31 pm

quiet wrote:"One thing about my experience with money, the values were not from my school but from my family."

So Dennis, your objection is that this lesson should be taught by the child's family, not the school? I agree that it should, but I see nothing wrong with it also being taught at school. When I went to school managing a household budget was taught in Home Economics. (Do they still teach that class?) Those of us who already knew how to do that coasted though the lesson those two days, while others learned valuable life skills.

Dennis, can you guess why it's taught in school? It's because some parents don't know how to do it themselves. The expression there would be the blind leading the blind. I'd hate to hazard a guess at how families today don't know how to manage a household budget. I do know that many of them end up on welfare, and that costs me money. I also know that kids learn by example, and many kids who grow up on welfare go on to become adults on welfare. It becomes a cycle. Get it?

How does that cycle get broken, Dennis? By somebody stepping in to teach the lesson to the kids that the parents couldn't teach.



excelent point!!!!!!
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves. " ~President Ronald Reagan.

http://www.newt.org/
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby Dennis King » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:19 pm

quiet wrote:"One thing about my experience with money, the values were not from my school but from my family."

So Dennis, your objection is that this lesson should be taught by the child's family, not the school? I agree that it should, but I see nothing wrong with it also being taught at school. When I went to school managing a household budget was taught in Home Economics. (Do they still teach that class?) Those of us who already knew how to do that coasted though the lesson those two days, while others learned valuable life skills.

Dennis, can you guess why it's taught in school? It's because some parents don't know how to do it themselves. The expression there would be the blind leading the blind. I'd hate to hazard a guess at how families today don't know how to manage a household budget. I do know that many of them end up on welfare, and that costs me money. I also know that kids learn by example, and many kids who grow up on welfare go on to become adults on welfare. It becomes a cycle. Get it?

How does that cycle get broken, Dennis? By somebody stepping in to teach the lesson to the kids that the parents couldn't teach.

I have no problem teaching them money skills. I do have a problem with the political correctness that is going on. A Moon jar? really, and the sharing part, is that really needed.
I think my example of how the $10 is spent is a really good life lesson. How about using a person who earns $400/week and then deduct his rent, gas, food, taxes, etc. Now that is a real world example of what they need to learn.

I sure wish they would teach money skills since we all know the experience of going to Shaw's and if we give them extra money to get even change, they are clueless. Must be the 60 percent of graduates who can not do math and of course, this is something the school brags about?

My issue is simple, teach the skills and avoid the politics. While it is nice to "share", that is a family value. Let them understand how to add and subtract money and leave the rest to the parents.

Next, teach them how to balance a check book but please, no deductions to planned parenthood!
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby quiet » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:54 pm

Dennis King wrote:My issue is simple, teach the skills and avoid the politics. While it is nice to "share", that is a family value. Let them understand how to add and subtract money and leave the rest to the parents.


You missed the point again. The lesson isn't about math skills, it's personal financial responsibility. It's living within your means. It's about building up your own financial safety net instead of relying on your community to carry you. It's developing the self-discipline to delay gratification, saving for what you want instead of building up debt.

These attitudes are life skills that need to be taught to every kid.

Dennis King wrote:Next, teach them how to balance a check book but please, no deductions to planned parenthood!


Ah, there it is. You're fine with your social values being taught, but not those you disagree with. How reliably hypocritical of you.

Go ahead and take the last word. I won't waste another keystroke on anyone so ethically bankrupt.
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby Dennis King » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:06 pm

quiet wrote:
Dennis King wrote:My issue is simple, teach the skills and avoid the politics. While it is nice to "share", that is a family value. Let them understand how to add and subtract money and leave the rest to the parents.


You missed the point again. The lesson isn't about math skills, it's personal financial responsibility. It's living within your means. It's about building up your own financial safety net instead of relying on your community to carry you. It's developing the self-discipline to delay gratification, saving for what you want instead of building up debt.

These attitudes are life skills that need to be taught to every kid.

Dennis King wrote:Next, teach them how to balance a check book but please, no deductions to planned parenthood!


Ah, there it is. You're fine with your social values being taught, but not those you disagree with. How reliably hypocritical of you.

Go ahead and take the last word. I won't waste another keystroke on anyone so ethically bankrupt.


My social values? How about NO social values. I object to the sharing part of the "moon jar". Everything else is fine but is does not go far enough to teach real life skills but after all, they are only second graders. Give them the concept of money, teach them what things costs and how much it takes to earn it. Have some real life examples such as I gave. I guess on this area, we will have to agree to disagree. I am always on the look out for indoctrination, I sent my kids to school with good conservative values and they came out as liberals. They did not learn that at home but it is clear the schools taught them this. Sorry to sound harsh but I expect them to read and do math etc, I do not expect them to quote Karl Max to me and attack capitalism along with the values that made this country great. Just last week my son was using a Lincoln quote to say what a "Racist" he was. I could spend hours debunking it with facts and little known stories about Lincoln as he is one of my favorite presidents but to no avail.

Their teachers have more impact and influence and it is times like these that I wish I had the money to send them to BG or Trinity. Darn, had to pay the taxes first for the PUBLIC school, not much left I am afraid.
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby RayWhipple » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:31 pm

Dennis King wrote:
quiet wrote:
Dennis King wrote:My issue is simple, teach the skills and avoid the politics. While it is nice to "share", that is a family value. Let them understand how to add and subtract money and leave the rest to the parents.


You missed the point again. The lesson isn't about math skills, it's personal financial responsibility. It's living within your means. It's about building up your own financial safety net instead of relying on your community to carry you. It's developing the self-discipline to delay gratification, saving for what you want instead of building up debt.

These attitudes are life skills that need to be taught to every kid.

Dennis King wrote:Next, teach them how to balance a check book but please, no deductions to planned parenthood!


Ah, there it is. You're fine with your social values being taught, but not those you disagree with. How reliably hypocritical of you.

Go ahead and take the last word. I won't waste another keystroke on anyone so ethically bankrupt.


My social values? How about NO social values. I object to the sharing part of the "moon jar". Everything else is fine but is does not go far enough to teach real life skills but after all, they are only second graders. Give them the concept of money, teach them what things costs and how much it takes to earn it. Have some real life examples such as I gave. I guess on this area, we will have to agree to disagree. I am always on the look out for indoctrination, I sent my kids to school with good conservative values and they came out as liberals. They did not learn that at home but it is clear the schools taught them this. Sorry to sound harsh but I expect them to read and do math etc, I do not expect them to quote Karl Max to me and attack capitalism along with the values that made this country great. Just last week my son was using a Lincoln quote to say what a "Racist" he was. I could spend hours debunking it with facts and little known stories about Lincoln as he is one of my favorite presidents but to no avail.

Their teachers have more impact and influence and it is times like these that I wish I had the money to send them to BG or Trinity. Darn, had to pay the taxes first for the PUBLIC school, not much left I am afraid.


Guess it shows just how well you showed your kids your family or social values. Using your arguments they should have come out of any school with your conservative values but they didn't. And why? Maybe, just maybe they realize good old dads values are a little to extreme!
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http://www.newt.org/
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Re: Dogma replaces math skills

Postby RD » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:06 pm

Dennis King wrote:
I sent my kids to school with good conservative values and they came out as liberals. They did not learn that at home but it is clear the schools taught them this.

Translation: I sent my kids to school, and they came out with a good education; something they could not get at home.
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