Teachers vote themselves jobs

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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby lynn » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:26 pm

Dennis with regards to your comment about out of town teachers coming to influence
if they did there was less than a handful. I counted the people in the room to make sure
our checklist count was correct and there were maybe a handful of people there who were not
registered voters.

If you think a secret ballot would have influenced the outcome - you should have been there and
you could have requested it. You have no cause for complaint with the outcome if you did not
think it important enough to be there.

To be perfectly honest, with the amount of money at stake, I was surprised at how few people came.
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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby Dennis King » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:40 pm

lynn wrote:Dennis with regards to your comment about out of town teachers coming to influence
if they did there was less than a handful. I counted the people in the room to make sure
our checklist count was correct and there were maybe a handful of people there who were not
registered voters.

If you think a secret ballot would have influenced the outcome - you should have been there and
you could have requested it. You have no cause for complaint with the outcome if you did not
think it important enough to be there.

To be perfectly honest, with the amount of money at stake, I was surprised at how few people came.


Lynn, you are the third person to slam me for not being there. I did plan to come but as I provide expert testimony and there is a 5 day rule for submission of evidence, when the attorney sent me the file, I was up against the clock and had to do it that night. In this economy, you simple take the work when it comes.

Now I know you did not mean it but I am a little put off with the attitude that many have since I have a long history of attending DS as you well know. The thing that bothers me most is I already explained my situation and still got the comments. Still, I do understand the disappointment of such a small turn out, I think most people are clueless about what the DS actually is and how it works. This allows public union groups even greater control over us. One good thing is the fact they did not ADD to the budget so we are looking at a cap at the 65 mil and change on the budget so if the governor cuts more than 501,000.00 (1.5 mil is more likely) then we may still need to make these cuts.
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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby tim dutton » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:56 pm

Dennis, I admit I was planning on attending, got home from work later than usual and skipped the meeting to spend time with my wife and daughter as both of us will be passing each other the next couple of nights. Many may not even know about the meetings or care to attend. A sad time these days with everyone to busy to vote. I wish I had gone and voted.
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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby Wayne » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:24 pm

lynn wrote:To be perfectly honest, with the amount of money at stake, I was surprised at how few people came.

It seems that most people aren't all that excited about these issues. The opportunities to learn about the issues and be heard at the deliberative session were there if people wanted to be involved. We have to accept that, aside from the few passionate voices on this forum, people just don't care enough to take the time.

I believe I heard last night that the $501K amount does not have a dramatic impact on the taxes. The tax rate jumps $0.03 per $100K in the budget, which means a house valued at $300K will see a tax difference of $45 for the year? Maybe that's why they're not excited.

[Edited for some poor math :oops: ]
Last edited by Wayne on Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby RayWhipple » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:31 pm

Wayne wrote:
lynn wrote:To be perfectly honest, with the amount of money at stake, I was surprised at how few people came.

It seems that most people aren't all that excited about these issues. The opportunities to learn about the issues and be heard at the deliberative session were there if people wanted to be involved. We have to accept that, aside from the few passionate voices on this forum, people just don't care enough to take the time.

I believe I heard last night that the $501K amount does not have a dramatic impact on the taxes. The tax rate jumps $0.03 per $100K in the budget, which means a house valued at $300K will see a tax difference of $15 for the year? Maybe that's why they're not excited.



I think what some may be concerned about is just like Mike Malzone said on his new show, .03 cents here, .12 cents there, it all adds up and i think a lot of people can understand that and that's why the Tea Party movement has gained so much support.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves. " ~President Ronald Reagan.

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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby Wayne » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:52 pm

RayWhipple wrote:I think what some may be concerned about is just like Mike Malzone said on his new show, .03 cents here, .12 cents there, it all adds up and i think a lot of people can understand that and that's why the Tea Party movement has gained so much support.

Haven't seen his show. Does he also say on his show that PAYT (aka Personal Responsibility) is "just another tax"? :?
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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby RayWhipple » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:06 pm

Yes he does. Here are his 2 shows..

2nd show: http://vimeo.com/20765632
1st show: http://vimeo.com/20697131

Should be an interesting night tomorrow night! :)
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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby MattPublicover » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:36 am

lynn wrote:To be perfectly honest, with the amount of money at stake, I was surprised at how few people came.


Given the amount of demands for even deeper cuts that have appeared on various websites, I was surprised there was not more support for the cuts, or proposals for even deeper cuts. Some folks in the Tea Party originally were looking to cut the full $2.3 million we stand to lose in the governor's proposed budget. In fact, tea partiers were among the few residents who spoke in favor of the $500,000 cut and, at the microphone in a very public forum, tea partiers actually praised the School Board.

I think the School Board's decision to propose a cut to their own budget in response to the governor's budget proposal took some of the wind out of the tea party's sails, as far as the school budget is concerned. The organization's Facebook page last week told its members that, if they could only attend one of the two deliberative sessions, the one they should attend is the town deliberative session. Seems they conceded the fight on the schools this time around.

Frankly, I think the Merrimack School District simply has majority support in this town. No amount of saying the teachers packed the audience, people didn't know about the deliberative session, people had other obligations, or people were "cowed" by the pro-education mood of the hall with a hand vote, really add up to explain the defeat of the proposed cut. Bottom line is, this is democracy. Given the voting patterns over the past few years, I have no reason to believe the outcome on Monday does not accurately reflect the majority viewpoint in town. If it does, shame on everybody who disagrees and stayed home.
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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby RBarnes » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:10 am

Wayne wrote:I believe I heard last night that the $501K amount does not have a dramatic impact on the taxes. The tax rate jumps $0.03 per $100K in the budget, which means a house valued at $300K will see a tax difference of $15 for the year? Maybe that's why they're not excited.


I just did the math and one of us has to be wrong here.

.03 per $100k in the budget means $501 = .15 cents tax per $1,000 value of the house
$300,000 house x the .15 cents per $1k = $45 on your tax bill

If we lose all $2.5 million our state reps are saying we should plan for that's a hit of $202 on a $300,000 house, that's the number Shannon gave during the meeting.
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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby andysinnh » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:48 am

RBarnes wrote:
Wayne wrote:I believe I heard last night that the $501K amount does not have a dramatic impact on the taxes. The tax rate jumps $0.03 per $100K in the budget, which means a house valued at $300K will see a tax difference of $15 for the year? Maybe that's why they're not excited.


I just did the math and one of us has to be wrong here.

.03 per $100k in the budget means $501 = .15 cents tax per $1,000 value of the house
$300,000 house x the .15 cents per $1k = $45 on your tax bill

If we lose all $2.5 million our state reps are saying we should plan for that's a hit of $202 on a $300,000 house, that's the number Shannon gave during the meeting.

Rick - your calculations are correct, based on the explaination from Matt S at the DS the other night.

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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby TonyRichardson » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:02 am

MattPublicover wrote:Frankly, I think the Merrimack School District simply has majority support in this town. No amount of saying the teachers packed the audience, people didn't know about the deliberative session, people had other obligations, or people were "cowed" by the pro-education mood of the hall with a hand vote, really add up to explain the defeat of the proposed cut. Bottom line is, this is democracy. Given the voting patterns over the past few years, I have no reason to believe the outcome on Monday does not accurately reflect the majority viewpoint in town. If it does, shame on everybody who disagrees and stayed home.


I disagree.

We are in a democratic republic, not a democracy.
The difference being the election of representatives to vote on things in our behalf.
People have trouble realizing how much of a difference that is, granted.

The majority of eligible voters do NOT show up to vote, so what we get for a result is the majority opinion of the minority that does.

Support or liking of the schools themselves is far different from the horribly high pricetag in taxes attached to them.

If a survey was ever taken asking both questions you might be surprised at the results.
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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby andysinnh » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:54 am

TonyRichardson wrote:I disagree.

We are in a democratic republic, not a democracy.
The difference being the election of representatives to vote on things in our behalf.
People have trouble realizing how much of a difference that is, granted.

The majority of eligible voters do NOT show up to vote, so what we get for a result is the majority opinion of the minority that does.

Support or liking of the schools themselves is far different from the horribly high pricetag in taxes attached to them.

If a survey was ever taken asking both questions you might be surprised at the results.

Tony - I think a more appropriate description might be this: The majority of the voters in Merrimack (who cast ballots) seem to be satisfied with the eduction "product" as delivered by the Merrimack School District, and believe that the $$ budgeted is the appropriate amount to keep that product moving forward. Obviously, anyone (if asked) would love to spend less to get the same delivered "product". That's human nature. But until the majority of the voters feel that either the product is not meeting their needs - or that the cost "pain" has passed each individuals' personal threshold, you'll get similar results at the polls in April. To date, that threshold for the majority of the voters has not been met. And in terms of those who chose to attend the DS the other evening, that was the same sentiment.

For me personally, I found myself for perhaps the first time agreeing that we needed to be more fiscally prudent when it came to our budgeting for 2011-2012, and as such voted for the motion to cut the $500k. And I was surprised (somewhat) to see I was in a significant minority. Will be interesting to see how things progress.

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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby Dennis King » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:58 am

Interesting article in today's Telegraph, it seems the good people of Litchfield were able to overcome the massive teacher turnout:

1050 hard working taxpayers voted against the 280 teachers and supporters, wow, now that is a big message. Sure wish our town did the same, at least our SB made the effort and I can not believe I am saying it but they did the responsible thing and the teachers and their supporters turned it down.

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/911 ... ng-27.html
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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby Ken Coleman » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:33 am

Regarding the 500K in cuts that did not pass school district meeting.

In reality this 500K of cuts might had have to come form other places anyway.

Special Education is very child specific, which means it is the toughest area to budget for in advance as you do not know what needs are coming through the school door next September.

The fact is in a good year the Special Education budget could easily end up being 500K under what is budgeted and in a bad year easily 500K over. The end result is that Special Education services are required and child specific. Not having enough funds budgeted does not relieve a school district of the requirement to provide these services. If the Special education budget is exceeded, the cuts must come from other areas in the budget.

Now here is the real kicker. The school district can use other state agencies to help with some of the required services (in other words help pay); however this year there are proposed massive cuts to these other agencies. What this will mean at the end of the day is that the school district may have to pick up even more cost as state and federal law places the school district as the service provider of last resort for educational services for the disabled.

In other words, if the state cuts occur the school district may need every last dime of the budgeted amount for special education and then some.

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Re: Teachers vote themselves jobs

Postby RBarnes » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:00 pm

Dennis King wrote:Interesting article in today's Telegraph, it seems the good people of Litchfield were able to overcome the massive teacher turnout:

1050 hard working taxpayers voted against the 280 teachers and supporters, wow, now that is a big message. Sure wish our town did the same, at least our SB made the effort and I can not believe I am saying it but they did the responsible thing and the teachers and their supporters turned it down.

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/911 ... ng-27.html


Dennis, the meeting in Litchfield was also their election so it's a bit different from a deliberative session in Merrimack's case where ours is not the same night as our election.

Not a valid comparison between the two.
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