Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

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Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby Dennis King » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:54 pm

In looking at the future, the events in Wisconsin do give me some hope that maybe we will finally fix this problem. If you look at the University of Phoenix, the model saves thousands in tuition using the internet. Imagine getting the best teachers and since the kids are at home, you do not have to pay for the infrastructure. Suppose we had a 2 day/3 day school week that reversed the order the next week. This way, the kids would still have time in the traditional school but the number of classrooms would be half of what we are doing now, also less lunch, less busing, less everything.

We really need to look at how we do things and move to the future. Private enterprise has lead the way and we should privatize most town services, the school being the most obvious choice. Now this plan is for High schoolers who should be old enough to be at home on their own but you certainly could start it in middle school with classes on line, group projects, etc.

Our town saved over a million dollars by simply privatizing custodial maintenance and grounds keeping. Why didn't the schools do this, bet the savings would be closer to two million! We must look to the private sector for solutions, we should go back to private kindergartens and privatize building maintenance and grounds keeping and of course the High School.
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby Davis Powell » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:16 pm

I can't take it anymore.

Dennis - two or three days at home a week? Really?

Who would supervise these children while they are at home? Most families that I know are two-income meaning both parents are at work during the day. The University of Phoenix is designed for adults who can take care of themselves. Can you imagine a first- second- or third grader at home alone? Not my kids.

I applaud you for thinking outside of the box, but you really need to think these things all the way through before posting them.
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby MMK » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:31 am

Davis Powell wrote:Who would supervise these children while they are at home? Most families that I know are two-income meaning both parents are at work during the day.


So basically, I'm paying for your kid's daycare because you decided to have children?
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby Dennis King » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:26 am

Davis Powell wrote:I can't take it anymore.

Dennis - two or three days at home a week? Really?

Who would supervise these children while they are at home? Most families that I know are two-income meaning both parents are at work during the day. The University of Phoenix is designed for adults who can take care of themselves. Can you imagine a first- second- or third grader at home alone? Not my kids.

I applaud you for thinking outside of the box, but you really need to think these things all the way through before posting them.


Davis, you need to re-read my post, I was talking about High School students, not elementary kids. Please read carefully before you try to discredit me. I am throwing out new ideas that we should look into, lots of ways to provide education, we need to look at alternatives to save money while also improving the quality of education we provide our kids.
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby tastyratz » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:21 pm

That's a horrible suggestion Dennis.
You provide too much faith. Idle hands...
When I was in high school if I was left home alone the last thing I would do is schoolwork...
There is a reason there is probably not a single place in the country who would adopt your wild idea.
Find your savings not through unicorns.
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby Dennis King » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:52 pm

tastyratz wrote:That's a horrible suggestion Dennis.
You provide too much faith. Idle hands...
When I was in high school if I was left home alone the last thing I would do is schoolwork...
There is a reason there is probably not a single place in the country who would adopt your wild idea.
Find your savings not through unicorns.


So when a kid is 19, he can go to college all by himself but at 18, this is impossible. Catholic school taught me many things and the most important was self discipline. Many kids in high school have after school jobs and if given the choice (yes it is all about school choice), many of them would choose this option. This would be the ultimate flex school, kids could turn to their internet lessons when it is convenient for them but must do it before the week is out. When combined with a 2day in school, 3 day on line with the next week being the reverse, I can see this would have lots of appeal, especially to self motivated kids. We have 13 year old girls coming into our homes to babysit our kids, you can not tell me a 16 year old is too immature to take this option. Now some will be so the "traditional" option is always there but as these schools within a school advance, I see more and more students electing for the option that gives them the most choice for the success they desire. I can also see longer school days, maybe a 4 day week so the kids would have more chances to work on the weekends. In that way, it would be simple, if the school week is 30 hours over 5 days, make it 32 over 4 days!
All I am suggesting is that we start looking at the alternatives to the education of our children. We can save a lot of money by simply having the students move into an alternative school, all of which to date have provided a superior education and less than 1/2 the cost we currently pay.
So again I ask, why spend 65 million when 30 million would do?
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby Davis Powell » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:48 pm

Dennis King wrote:Davis, you need to re-read my post, I was talking about High School students, not elementary kids. Please read carefully before you try to discredit me. I am throwing out new ideas that we should look into, lots of ways to provide education, we need to look at alternatives to save money while also improving the quality of education we provide our kids.


Sorry Dennis - you're right. I skipped over that paragraph.

I still don't think this is a viable option. Your comment about a 19 year old being able to go to college by themselves and an 18 year old not being able to stay home and take classes - not all 19 year olds choose to go to college nor are they able to handle it.
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby Davis Powell » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:51 pm

MMK wrote:So basically, I'm paying for your kid's daycare because you decided to have children?


Not at all. Daycare is babysitting and no instruction is occuring.
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby Dennis King » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:15 pm

Davis Powell wrote:Sorry Dennis - you're right. I skipped over that paragraph.

I still don't think this is a viable option. Your comment about a 19 year old being able to go to college by themselves and an 18 year old not being able to stay home and take classes - not all 19 year olds choose to go to college nor are they able to handle it.


Davis, once again, please go back and read my posts, school choice is the perfect answer to kids who do not want to go to college, they could go to vocational high schools and have apprenticeships like they have in Europe. By having greater choice, I expect the graduation rate to be higher, you will have kids learning what interests them the most and the best part, once you go to private schools, you save at least 50% of the cost!
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby andysinnh » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:38 pm

Dennis - I suggest that you move to the next step beyond using the forum as your pulpit about wanting changes in our schools. If you're serious about change, you need to work with the school board to get things moving. Note that there's a position open on the school board this year - have you considered running? Yup, it's a ton of time to commit, but if you're serious about this, it'll take time and commitment. You can't influence change from behind a keyboard. It's obvious that you have supporters and non-supporters on this forum. What about the rest of the voters and parents? Maybe others agree? Maybe they don't?

Get involved, work to impact the change you're longing for. Posting on this forum won't do it.

cheers, andy
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby joeteacher73 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:50 am

Dennis King wrote:
Davis Powell wrote:Sorry Dennis - you're right. I skipped over that paragraph.

I still don't think this is a viable option. Your comment about a 19 year old being able to go to college by themselves and an 18 year old not being able to stay home and take classes - not all 19 year olds choose to go to college nor are they able to handle it.


Davis, once again, please go back and read my posts, school choice is the perfect answer to kids who do not want to go to college, they could go to vocational high schools and have apprenticeships like they have in Europe. By having greater choice, I expect the graduation rate to be higher, you will have kids learning what interests them the most and the best part, once you go to private schools, you save at least 50% of the cost!


Dennis,

We have some students already taking online courses.

http://www.govhs.org/vhsweb/press.nsf/b ... endocument
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby Dennis King » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:01 am

Thanks for proving my point Joe Teacher, Back in my day, all course were AP courses because we were so much further ahead. My mother's Catholic High School education was the equivalent of a BA in liberal arts today. Her command of the English language was amazing (having taken 5 years of Latin as part of her required studies certainly helped). Anyone who has studies Chinese language will recognize the root character in it (kind of fun once you know and it does tell you a lot about the culture of the people very much like the romance languages in their masculine and feminine nouns).

Why hold back any child? Public education has been "dummed down" since the 50's. Ask any grandparent what they had to learn and compare it to the kids in public school now. English is the worst, a victim or multi-culturalism (remember Ebonics), school teaching experiments and social promotions. My sister was the victim of one of these experiments, she went to public school (as she did not want to work to go to Catholic school). Well, they had the bright idea of teaching the kids to spell phonetically. Trouble is, by the sixth grade when they had to teach her the real way, she was so confused (like saying Santa does not exist). Today she has 3 wonderful kids and can not spell to save her life. Oh, they gave up on this experiment but only after destroying the lives of all these kids. Anyone who has read the works of Ebbinghaus and Atkinson and Shiffman would know the consequences of "unlearning". My sister paid a dear price so someone could put in a grant program on the "New English".

Kids will live up to or down to the expectations placed upon them. Not all kids lack motivation, actually, they all are motivated, our mistake is treating them all the same. The assault of boys over the past 20 years has resulted in more girls going to college then boys. Now this may have been the dream of NOW but title nine has destroyed most of the male athletic programs and even in the younger grades, they took away the "fresh air brake called "FAB" (we called it recess which basically meant we could play in the parking lot) which was so important to the boys to burn off the excess energy.

I definitely could see single sex school options, vocational schools, technical schools, academies of excellence, and of course, a much diminished public school since we all know what they can do. Competition is what makes this country great. Tax us all for the kids education but do not spend it on the PUBLIC schools, each parent would get a voucher for the school of their choice and the market would set the price. I can see a future where we have kids in all categories getting the very best education for them, not the one size the fits none that we now have.
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby tim dutton » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:39 am

Dennis You live in a dream world. you need to push your ideas above this forum and into state and national lawmaker hands. Many of your ideas are not allowed due to federal and State mandates. My daughter was not held back at MHS. She had taken every social study class available and was offered a chance to attend a local college for a class.

Difference between private schools and public schools are night and day. Private schools only take a certain number of students each year and those students must pass their entry tests. On the other hand, if 50 families move into Merrimack and have children, Merrimack must admit them.

Price of public school is due in a large part to state and federal mandates that may not apply to private schools, as they have different requirements for enrollments.
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby Dennis King » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:54 am

tim dutton wrote:Dennis You live in a dream world. you need to push your ideas above this forum and into state and national lawmaker hands. Many of your ideas are not allowed due to federal and State mandates. My daughter was not held back at MHS. She had taken every social study class available and was offered a chance to attend a local college for a class.

Difference between private schools and public schools are night and day. Private schools only take a certain number of students each year and those students must pass their entry tests. On the other hand, if 50 families move into Merrimack and have children, Merrimack must admit them.

Price of public school is due in a large part to state and federal mandates that may not apply to private schools, as they have different requirements for enrollments.


Well if the libertarian influences continue on the national level, we may no longer have a national "Dept of Ed" and all the laws and mandates that go with it.
The states will then have the chance to once again mold the minds of the young and the parents will finally have choices instead of mandates. This will save us tons of money. Studies have shown for every dollar sent to Washington, only 30 cents comes back, the rest is spent of people who beg for the money back (grant writers) and the people who choose the winners and losers.

I see us going back to private kindergarten and a whole range of other for choice school options. I also see much better private special ed schools (I used to teach at one). People fear what they do not know but most of what I have suggested has already been done in the past. We need to learn from it and have the freedom to do what we feel is best for our kids. Now I do expect longer school days as the kids will be on buses longer to get to the school they want but this is not really a bad thing, homework would be done in school, kids would only need a kindle and that would be in school or on weekends but one thing is for sure, options will bring innovations and the schools that do the best job, will have parents beating a path to their doors. BTW, the Merrimack Charter school does not "hand select" their students, a poster with a child in school exposed that myth.
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Re: Why spend 65 million on schools when 30 million would do

Postby RayWhipple » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:02 pm

Dennis King wrote:Well if the libertarian influences continue on the national level, we may no longer have a national "Dept of Ed" and all the laws and mandates that go with it.
The states will then have the chance to once again mold the minds of the young and the parents will finally have choices instead of mandates. This will save us tons of money. Studies have shown for every dollar sent to Washington, only 30 cents comes back, the rest is spent of people who beg for the money back (grant writers) and the people who choose the winners and losers.

I see us going back to private kindergarten and a whole range of other for choice school options. I also see much better private special ed schools (I used to teach at one). People fear what they do not know but most of what I have suggested has already been done in the past. We need to learn from it and have the freedom to do what we feel is best for our kids. Now I do expect longer school days as the kids will be on buses longer to get to the school they want but this is not really a bad thing, homework would be done in school, kids would only need a kindle and that would be in school or on weekends but one thing is for sure, options will bring innovations and the schools that do the best job, will have parents beating a path to their doors. BTW, the Merrimack Charter school does not "hand select" their students, a poster with a child in school exposed that myth.


Ok I did a search for Merrimack Charter School and I found this place.

http://www.asdnh.org/home.php

Now lets look at the admission requirements..

APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS

The Academy for Science and Design is currently accepting applications for students entering grades 7 and 8.

Schools of choice depend on parents and students making an informed choice. For this reason, students and parents are required to attend an informational session and all students are required to have an interview. Student interviews and skills assessments are scheduled once applications are complete. Applications must be submitted and assessments completed by the dates specified in the Announcements section on the front page of the web site in order to be included in the lottery. If no dates are listed in Announcments then dates have not yet been established. Applicants will be contacted to confirm receipt of materials and arrange interviews. Home schooled students should contact the Academy regarding application requirements



Do you see that Dennis? Sure seems there are some requirements for admission..

http://www.asdnh.org/app_process.php

Clearly shows they do hand pick students. And this is no different form a lot of private schools.
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