Adiquate Yearly Progress

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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby Tom Williams » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:38 pm

Ron Davies wrote: All of the schools that failed in Merrimack failed solely from special education.


What does this mean? Where can I examine the data that supports this statement?

Thanks,
Tom Williams
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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby Dennis King » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:44 pm

That is not surprising Ron,
I have long agreed with Ken on this, Special Education should not be part of the total school "grade" These students have a wide variety of issues and I simply do not feel it is fair to judge them in this way. Each of these students has an IEP, let them be evaluated but their own self improvement.

I have a sister in law who happens to be retarded. She is married, lives in an apartment with a "house parent" down the hall, she takes the bus to work every day and travels the world on her vacations. Still, she can't read or write above the 5th grade level.

Now it all comes down to what measures do you equate for success. She has basic money skills but my father in law has to take care of the check book so she has some support. All in all, she is living a happy and productive life but on these tests, she would be a "failure" Now that makes no sense to me at all.

We really need to rethink "No child left behind" I love the concept but the measurement criteria is flawed. She may not understand Shakespheare but she pays her taxes and has an infectious smile; she never worries about what people say about her. She long ago learned to ignore the people who laugh at her. She finds humor in simple things, she donates time and money to her church and by any real world evaluation, she is a complete success.

Time to remove these people from the stats and focus on realistic goals and measurements that will allow them to have a productive and meaningful life.
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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby andysinnh » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:54 pm

Tom Williams wrote:
Ron Davies wrote: All of the schools that failed in Merrimack failed solely from special education.


What does this mean? Where can I examine the data that supports this statement?

Thanks,

Tom - it takes a while to find it - but if you go to the http://www.ed.state.nh.us" target="_blank site and go to the AYP page, you have to dig down to the AYP reports broken out by individual school (it drops out to the measuredprogress-based web site). There are tabs under each individual school that talk about testing areas, combined report cards, etc. On the final tab is an AYP section, and it has a table about the category of students and the AYP status. For MUES (which had the lowest rating of the merrimack schools overall), AYP is "YES" for every category, except for the special education one, and there it's "NO" for most all categories. some of the breakdowns show in other reports talk about alternative testing and categories therein. Bottom line is that the percentage of special ed students in Merrimack (and other districts, according to the Telegraph's summary) are the category that keeps schools overall from AYP positive status.

Bottom line - all of the area schools in need of improvement fail because of the special ed measurements. Not sure this is a Merrimack-only issue, or one that shows it's face when you have a large special ed population... The details are interesting, that's for sure...

andy

edit - here's the link to the profile site - enter the fields for 2006-2007 and go from there http://reporting.measuredprogress.org/nhprofile/
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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby Ron Davies » Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:08 pm

If you go to Nashuatelegraph.com it is the lead story. Click on the headline and then in a sidebar it will give you this information.
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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby Jeannine Stergios » Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:08 pm

Ron

If this is true (ie special education kids are dragging down the scores) then the no child left behind is even more ridiculous than I originally thought. As the parent of a 34 year old developmentally disabled daughter, who spent her entire school aged life in Special Ed, I fought against her being placed in a regular classroom and insisted she be taught life skills rather than Beowulf. I agree with Dennis and I wonder why this travesty continues at the expense of all kids (disabled or otherwise)?

We based her progess on the goals set for her each year in her IEP. Does anyone know why Special Ed kids are part of this adequate yearly progress and if they are how could they possibly EVER be expected to keep up?
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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby Ron Davies » Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:17 pm

Jeanine,

I agree with you. My wife is a teacher and is constantly frustrated by the results.
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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby Tom Williams » Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:27 pm

Could the explanation lie in the elasticity of the definition of "Special Needs"? My understanding is that today many children with common behavioral issues are classified as "Special Needs", whereas in the past, they would not have been considered thus.
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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby RBarnes » Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:50 pm

Tom Williams wrote:Could the explanation lie in the elasticity of the definition of "Special Needs"? My understanding is that today many children with common behavioral issues are classified as "Special Needs", whereas in the past, they would not have been considered thus.


Very good question Tom.

And we are talking about a decent sized chuck of the students as well. If I recall correctly Merrimack has 16% coded students (I remember when I asked last year we were 1% over the state average). Not every single one of them I'm sure would be those as discussed here who are for the most part never going to reach the levels of a "normal" student. To rate them on the same level is just not going to be realistic. However, there are many who make up that 16% who are expected to be on the same level as they are in the same classes and grades at the other kids but they need additional help.

So I guess the question is, if we are receiving the no specifically because of special needs and those special needs are made up of that 16% of our student population, how then can that 16% of our students be adequately (spelled it right that time :wink: ) tested? Granted that's not a question we can answer here locally as we aren't the ones creating the testing.
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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby mmoy » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:43 pm

It would be interesting to see what the coded areas are. I would have guess about 5% special needs; not 16%. Is this reflective of the general population?
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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby mglr536 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:58 pm

How many parents asked the kids about the 1st day of school?

Take a breather and ask that simple question for the rest of the week. (at least until Thursday; no school Friday)
take time out of school debating and go to a board meeting, volunteer the time you'd take replying to these posts and spend that time enriching the school directly.

Not trying to minimize these discussions, just trying to suggest that with all the time some posters have to write throughout the day, maybe an hour with the kids will go a longer way. Wow.

BTW, my daughter had a great day in her 1st day of High School. Her older sister actually had lunch in the cafe with her. Imagine, a senior having lunch with a freshman. And the senior daughter even introduced herself to a new girl in her 1st year in Merrimack as a senior.

This is what our schools are really all about. The day to day reality of our kids and their take aways. Take a moment to reflect on this.
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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby andysinnh » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:14 pm

mglr536 wrote:How many parents asked the kids about the 1st day of school?

Take a breather and ask that simple question for the rest of the week. (at least until Thursday; no school Friday)
take time out of school debating and go to a board meeting, volunteer the time you'd take replying to these posts and spend that time enriching the school directly.

Not trying to minimize these discussions, just trying to suggest that with all the time some posters have to write throughout the day, maybe an hour with the kids will go a longer way. Wow.

BTW, my daughter had a great day in her 1st day of High School. Her older sister actually had lunch in the cafe with her. Imagine, a senior having lunch with a freshman. And the senior daughter even introduced herself to a new girl in her 1st year in Merrimack as a senior.

This is what our schools are really all about. The day to day reality of our kids and their take aways. Take a moment to reflect on this.

So - I'm a little perturbed that you "assume" that we're not involved. We have taken the time to visit our son's teachers and support staff a week before school started, drop him off every morning and discuss school prep on the way in, talk on the way home, discuss over dinner what went good and what went "so so" every day, and help get him started and focused on homework - every day. And on top of that, I found the time to run for and get elected to the Budget Committee this year. And with 2 older kids in college, helping to get them set up with classes and moved in, we certainly spend time with them a whole lot.

Being the parent of a special-needs kid, I'm concerned at the scores shown, especially in the areas where the scores were lower. So it's part of my daily routine to put in my full day plus of work and also be an advocate for my children. Be careful of your assumptions - you're not always correct...

andy
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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby mglr536 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:29 pm

Don't be perturbed. No assumptions on my part so don't assume what I'm thinking. Never said you weren't involved.

I'm just suggesting a step back...no more no less.

Never would presume I'm correct all the time, some of the time or none of the time. Just making a simple post.

I've read your posts and some are good and well thought out. Has nothing to do with being personal so why do you take it that way?

Don't really care about whether you have special or non special needs kids. Just wanted to mention that we should all take a breather.
Every kid is special whether they have needs or no needs. Wouldn't want to discriminate would we?

I don't doubt that you personally give more than 100% to everything inluding your children. Infact, I've seen you in person and know you have a good heart.
Don't take my post personally. Have a good night. get some rest.

There's bigger fish to fry, Andy.
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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby andysinnh » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:52 pm

mglr536 wrote:Don't be perturbed. No assumptions on my part so don't assume what I'm thinking. Never said you weren't involved.

I'm just suggesting a step back...no more no less.

Never would presume I'm correct all the time, some of the time or none of the time. Just making a simple post.

I've read your posts and some are good and well thought out. Has nothing to do with being personal so why do you take it that way?

Don't really care about whether you have special or non special needs kids. Just wanted to mention that we should all take a breather.
Every kid is special whether they have needs or no needs. Wouldn't want to discriminate would we?

I don't doubt that you personally give more than 100% to everything inluding your children. Infact, I've seen you in person and know you have a good heart.
Don't take my post personally. Have a good night. get some rest.

There's bigger fish to fry, Andy.

Sorry - too much stuff going on at work and getting kids to college, and frustrated with all the junk happening in town. I've got the next 2 days off - gonna do some car waxing and other mindless stuff - should help recharge the brain.

Peace - andy
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Re: Adiquate Yearly Progress

Postby Scott Kepnes » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:04 pm

mglr536 wrote:BTW, my daughter had a great day in her 1st day of High School. Her older sister actually had lunch in the cafe with her. Imagine, a senior having lunch with a freshman. And the senior daughter even introduced herself to a new girl in her 1st year in Merrimack as a senior.

This is what our schools are really all about. The day to day reality of our kids and their take aways. Take a moment to reflect on this.


I also enjoyed hearing about my kids' day!
In fact, I had a late meeting at work and was annoyed I couldn't get home earlier.

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