restored jobs?

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Postby Phil Straight » Sun May 13, 2007 10:44 am

Andy, you may be confusing the "will of the people" with the "will of the lobbyists." Many think Merrimack is out-growing the DS concept. In a small town, with few people feeding at the trough, voters gather to participate in the decisions and their numbers exceed those who have special self serving interests. As the town grows, that equation begins to reverse. You can see this when large groups leave the DS after their particular article is voted on. To some, it looks like they don't care about the Town as a whole.

That don't make them bad people. My wife, daughter, daughter-in law, and best friend are all teachers, and we should support their right to make their life, and profession, better in any way they can. It is also the right of others to try to hold down taxes. It is to be expected that people get involved in the decisions that affect them the most. They would be foolish not to do so.
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Postby Jeannine Stergios » Sun May 13, 2007 12:39 pm

Andy

I don't care if you don't feel comfortable. You don't deserve to feel comfortable after all of the lurkers on here you've made uncomfortable


Excuse me - feeling uncomfortable? What kind of a normal adult feels uncomfortable reading a forum? Who are these uncomfortable people? spineless squish brainers? give me a break.

Maybe you don't know who LT is but everyone else does. Go and ask Fitzy about LT's identity - he's obssessed with LT.

Whether or not you realize it, you're trying to limit free speech because you disagree with him.
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Postby Nat Fairbanks » Sun May 13, 2007 12:40 pm

Andy Sylvia wrote:The average citizen will look at this example and lose faith in participating in our democracy since their voice only has "advisory" value. Even if it's a bad idea, if the people want something, and we live in a democracy, respresentative or direct, that's what should be done.

I'm sorry are we talking about the same DS? The only article that actually gave advice or direction about restoring jobs was the article about the assistant principal. The SB followed that advice.

You seem to think that adding $700,000 to the budget in some way told the SB to restore all the positions they cut in their budget. I disagree. It simply told the SB the amount of money they could spend. As Rick has pointed out there was no real option for those voters who did not want the SB to restore jobs. They could vote yes on the budget and give the SB permission to spend SB proposed budget + $700,000 or vote no and spend even more. Unlike the assistant principal there was no way for a voter to give their opinion on the restoration of the remainder of the jobs. Either option in the ballot box gave the SB the money to restore the jobs, but no direction to do so. In this case the SB decided to take the advice of the voters on the one warrant article that gave them direction on a job, and also decided to restore one more job.

If someone had put forward a warrant article about other jobs and the SB decided to ignore the "advisory" nature of that warrant article then you would have a legitimate complaint. However in this case you do not.

-Nat
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Postby Loweresttaxes » Sun May 13, 2007 5:21 pm

Andy,

Why would the good and competent journalist that you are in bed with lose their job?
"AS FAR AS I'VE SEEN, HIS [Mahmoud Ahmadinejad] ONLY BITCH IS OUR DESIRE TO PREVENT HIS COUNTRY DEVELOPING NUCLEAR POWER." -Fitsy
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Postby Andy Sylvia » Sun May 13, 2007 5:27 pm

Nat Fairbanks wrote:
If someone had put forward a warrant article about other jobs and the SB decided to ignore the "advisory" nature of that warrant article then you would have a legitimate complaint. However in this case you do not.

-Nat


Nat, I think Phil hit upon the big issue here, it isn't the money, but rather the very issue of having the DB in the first place since it no longer fufills the purpose it was meant for. I'd like to find some kind of hybrid of the old school town meeting, but that would also be difficult. However, just about anything, including become a city, would be superior to the DB.

Ignoring even advisory warrant articles destroys the entire purpose of having a Deliberative Session in the first place as well as destroying the faith of the voters to affect any direct change (indirect change by petititoning our elected officials or people with alot of money or good social networks who can influence other people)

That's the big issue for me Nat. You ask most people out of who aren't politically active, and they ask why they should bother. Things like this are why they think there's no reason to bother.
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Postby Andy Sylvia » Sun May 13, 2007 5:54 pm

Jeannine Stergios wrote:
Excuse me - feeling uncomfortable? What kind of a normal adult feels uncomfortable reading a forum? Who are these uncomfortable people? spineless squish brainers? give me a break.


Not everybody is like you or me or the rest of the regulars, Jeannine.



Jeannine Stergios wrote:Maybe you don't know who LT is but everyone else does.


Maybe I should start a poll on that one... :wink:

Jeannine Stergios wrote:Whether or not you realize it, you're trying to limit free speech because you disagree with him.


I realize it, and I don't particularly like it, but when is it ok to take away one person's free speech and when isn't it?

I've known many people who don't want to speak out on here because of people like you or LT. And I bet I have gotten angry enough at times to do the same with right wing lurkers.

Is it ok for me or you or LT or anybody else to do that? And trying to stand up to people who do that, potentially drowning them out, is that alright?

Welcome to the internet. More often than not, it isn't a nice place, a fact that frustrates me to the point of anger at times.
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Postby Andy Sylvia » Sun May 13, 2007 6:04 pm

Loweresttaxes wrote:Andy,

Why would the good and competent journalist lose their job?


Several reasons.

1. The main job of media companies, like any company, is making a profit. That's fine with me, as long as they let their employees profit, which usually isn't the case.

Entry level journalists make on average $19,000 a year without benefits, definately not enough to make a living around here.

2. In an ideal world, print journalists would be rewarded by being informative, but we don't live in ideal world. Journalists are rewarded by writing things that sell newspapers.

My friend is honest, but he might have a competitor who is dishonest, but writes stories that sell more papers.

3. Journalists are human beings, just like you or me, but they are expected not to be. They are expected to be robots, with no opinions, no passions, just blank and neutral observers.

Because if they aren't, people like you will conduct witch hunts towards these people, as if they don't already enough crap to deal with in regards to editors or their own lives.

4. Just like many industries in this country today, many newspapers are downsizing like crazy, relying more and more on stringers or wire stories.
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Postby Jeannine Stergios » Sun May 13, 2007 6:11 pm

Andy

I've known many people who don't want to speak out on here because of people like you or LT.


Don't blame us because these people who "feel uncomfortable" simply reading what we post have no guts. It takes a certain amount of guts to post here and some people lack courage. Their problem - not mine.
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Postby RD » Sun May 13, 2007 8:04 pm

Jeannine Stergios wrote:Don't blame us because these people who "feel uncomfortable" simply reading what we post have no guts. It takes a certain amount of guts to post here and some people lack courage. Their problem - not mine.

This type of attitude is extremely detrimental our society. Unfortunately this lack of respect for others gets passed on from generation to generation. It's getting better though. It just takes time.

I have felt uncomfortable on more than one occasion, as I know others have, while reading some of the creepy posts by some of the creepy posters on this forum.
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Postby Loweresttaxes » Sun May 13, 2007 8:06 pm

RD wrote: I have felt uncomfortable on more than one occasion, as I know others have, while reading some of the creepy posts by some of the creepy posters on this forum.


Me too.
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Postby RBarnes » Sun May 13, 2007 8:41 pm

Andy Sylvia wrote:Rick, then why did we even bother with the DS?


It's a double edged sword that I'll admit is misused but if you want warrant articles submitted by the people constitutionally you MUST debate them and give the legislative body (the people at the DS) a chance to amend them. Sometimes the DS when used this way is used for good cause. Cleaning up a badly written article for instance. Other times it is abused. When articles are zeroed out or reworded to become null no matter how people vote on them for instance.

Do away with DS and you do away with ANY say by the people beyond who they vote into office.
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Postby Jeannine Stergios » Mon May 14, 2007 10:30 am

RD

I have felt uncomfortable on more than one occasion, as I know others have, while reading some of the creepy posts by some of the creepy posters on this forum.


Feeling uncomfortable? When you and your movie buddy are all enthralled about Brokeback Mountain and every other "fad of the day" do you think some of us don't roll our eyes and think how creepy is that?

What bothers you compared to what bothers the average person is so out of whack that it's a joke.
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Postby RBarnes » Mon May 14, 2007 10:51 am

Jeannine, speaking of broke back mountain, did you see the Union Leader article last week showing the two nude men making out while wrapped in a sheet reading vegetarians make better lovers standing outside the capital in Concord?

Got to just love having that type of scene out on our public streets.
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Postby Jeannine Stergios » Mon May 14, 2007 10:55 am

Rick

No - fortunately I was spared seeing that. Ridiculous isn't it? And so unnecessary.
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Postby Michael Thompson » Mon May 14, 2007 11:30 am

Imagine, another thread that is way off course. How did that happen???
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