January 1 Curbside Price Increase

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Postby Devils Advocate » Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:43 pm

My curbside prices aren't going up at all in January (The topic of discussion) I will be using the transfer station.
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Postby Mark Fitzgerald » Wed Dec 24, 2003 8:17 am

Muriel, I agree. Throughout the entire debate Roland was the one invidual in that business who maintained his integrity. I have no doubt that's also why he had so many people supporting him and also why he accounts for so much of MMK's CS business compared to the rest. He is a good man.
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Postby Constitution1 » Wed Dec 24, 2003 9:56 am

"Give me liberty or give me death."
Patrick Henry

"Give me curbside or give me death."
Mark Fitzgerald
Last edited by Constitution1 on Wed Dec 24, 2003 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mark Fitzgerald » Wed Dec 24, 2003 10:02 am

You're reaching now...and you're still making grammer mistakes. "OR death", not "OF death". Were we up too late last night?

Nice try though.
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Postby Constitution1 » Wed Dec 24, 2003 10:16 am

Were we up too late last night?

Actually, now that you mention it, we started celebrating a little early here.
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Postby RBarnes » Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:30 pm

Devils Advocate wrote:My curbside prices aren't going up at all in January (The topic of discussion) I will be using the transfer station.


Ah but let's not ignore that taxes HAVE and WILL be going up thanks to the transfer station.
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Postby Devils Advocate » Mon Dec 29, 2003 5:39 pm

Ah but let's not ignore that taxes HAVE and WILL be going up thanks to the transfer station.

TAXES WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME WITH CS OR TS. Your starting to sound like MF.
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Postby Jim Bass » Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:42 pm

DITTO!
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Postby RBarnes » Mon Dec 29, 2003 8:49 pm

Devils Advocate wrote:TAXES WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME WITH CS OR TS.


DA, this is FAR different then what the town was told BEFORE the vote. We were told there was a million in savings with the TS. How many people do you think would have opted to pay the SAME for self-service when they could have had full-service?

And when all is said and done and we start seeing how much waste is collected at the station and from what sources I think you’ll see you would have been paying less in taxes (saying we don’t go PAYT, but even that could be considered a form of taxation) then you would have with CS and you have to spend either your time (which you can argue what that’s worth) or additional money to hire a hauler on top of it. But only time will tell.
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Postby Devils Advocate » Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:47 pm

How many people do you think would have opted to pay the SAME for self-service when they could have had full-service?

RB, I made my decisions on Norms numbers. I have said it before, he posted the difference between the 2 after long hours of research in the old forum and in the end the difference was so miniscule it became a wash and a choice of which you prefer. And we know Norm couldn't have made a mistake. He is never wrong. So you can count me as 1 who "would have opted to pay the SAME for self-service when they could have had full-service"?
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Postby RBarnes » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:35 am

Devils Advocate wrote:RB, I made my decisions on Norms numbers.


DA, can you refresh my memory as to what those numbers were? I seem to recall the following as the original numbers...

1.8 million for CS and 2.4 million for the TS.

Since then the TS has dropped a little to 2.26 million but that is still far from what I would consider equal.

Devils Advocate wrote:And we know Norm couldn't have made a mistake. He is never wrong. So you can count me as 1 who "would have opted to pay the SAME for self-service when they could have had full-service"?


Ok, lets for sake of argument say the two are exactly equal in cost; this is NOT what the voters were told prior to the election. There were ads stating the TS would save 1 million a year. There were fools such as Dennis King, who stood before the town and stated point blank the TS was 1 million a year cheaper. When you consider the TS passed by such a small percentage and consider there were people who believed they were voting for the option that would save the town 1 million a year in tax dollars it no longer comes down to people voting because of true choice... it comes down to a choice based on LIES.

Even if I were a TS supporter I would not feel comfortable based on that. Winning because people were lied to is not what I consider a true victory. I think that is why so many of the TS supporters are now so nervous and continue to say things like its over let it drop. They know they didn’t win fairly and the margin of victory was so small it could have only been due to the fact it was based on lies and untrue numbers.

DA, once this town has solid undisputable costs in black in white in the town budget we will see if people really did support the TS because it was their choice or because they wanted the cheaper of the town options.

When 2.26 million for self service is put side by side with 1.8 million for full service we will see what people truly want.
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Postby Chuck Mower » Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:09 am

The savings would have paid for both a new library and the new school.
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Postby Mark Fitzgerald » Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:18 am

DA,

You can't even take advantage of those things that fit your argument. I didn't realize you were so "limited", I hereby apologize for all the barbs I've thrown at you. Its not your fault.

The fact is that the tax impact would NOT have been the same for either program, CS would have had a HIGHER tax impact. If you were smart you would have known this, but you're obviously not.

I'll go over it again, this time assuming I am speaking to a 3rd grade student.

The TS will cost X on the tax rate and Y out of pocket.

CS would have cost Z on the tax rate.

The sum of X+Y is $500K more than Z......every year.

Z was tax deductable as well.

Got it? Or do I need to drag out flash cards?
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Postby uscitizen03054 » Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:12 am

I'll go over it again, this time assuming I am speaking to a 3rd grade student.

The TS will cost X on the tax rate and Y out of pocket.


Mark, I am above third grade but I still need some explanation. In the equation above, in the variable Y what are the out of pocket costs?
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Postby Mark Fitzgerald » Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:18 am

Ohhhh, about $1.9 million or so.
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