Farmhouse Curve Status???

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Postby RBarnes » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:02 pm

Mark Fitzgerald wrote:
Why is it that the BOS would not enroll your position and data into the official town warrant?


You'll have to ask them. They accepted the figures as factual.......and then buried them. My guess is that they were still upset nobody bought into the Mast Road idea, even though it was a complete and total mess from the start, stealing WWTF money and with the land having covenants on it the town KNEW about before asking the judge for a special rtown meeting. Maybe they just didn't like "some people" in a general sense. Pettiness makes a great leadership skill, doesn't it?


Let's not forget there was at least one member of the BOS who stood to directly profit from a TS going in on LR.
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Postby Mark Fitzgerald » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:04 pm

Its simple uscitizen, take Dennis and I out of your equations.

Just look at Hudson's signed contract and $1.8M they budgeted for CS and then look at YOUR tax bill containing $2.3 Million for the TS. Its not hard and neither Dennis nor I have any impact on the reality.
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Postby Mark Fitzgerald » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:06 pm

Funny Rick isn't it? You and I are crucified yet this person is given a free ride.
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Postby RBarnes » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:16 pm

Mark Fitzgerald wrote:Just look at Hudson's signed contract and $1.8M they budgeted for CS and then look at YOUR tax bill containing $2.3 Million for the TS. Its not hard and neither Dennis nor I have any impact on the reality.


It amazes me that the total cost of the TS at 2.36 MILION has now been stated as fact in town meetings and likewise the 1.8 million quote for CS is confirmable and yet there are still people questioning who’s numbers are true.

These numbers can be CONFIRMED... you cannot argue whether they are true or not because they are FACTS. It has nothing to do with the person pointing them out. It has nothing to do with people’s addresses. It has nothing to do with anything other then cold hard facts that can be looked up and proven.

FACT: 2.36 million is the total cost of the TS.

FACT: 1.8 million is what Hudson (a town about the same size as Merrimack) pays per year for curbside) and is a reasonable multi year quote for what we would have paid.
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Postby uscitizen03054 » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:16 pm

Just look at Hudson's signed contract and $1.8M they budgeted for CS and then look at YOUR tax bill containing $2.3 Million for the TS. Its not hard and neither Dennis nor I have any impact on the reality.


A couple of comments but this is not my area of expertise. The TS provides us with great utility so some value must be assigned to this. Next, Hudson is not Merrimack and I would look for a specific bid for Merrimack before making any judgement.
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Postby Mark Fitzgerald » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:27 pm

Were you alive last year?

MMK HAD a specific bid, three of them to be exact. The lowest was for $1.6 million for the whole town, 5 year committment. We were then told by the BOS Chair multi-year contracts were impossible, despite the fact they're IN PLACE in every muni department. Add $250K to operate a drop off site and you're at $1.825M, a far sight from $2.3M.

Transfer stations offer no "utility", it is nothing more than a rest area for trash. The defining criteria of whether or not a TS is justified is the savings it offers in transporting large volumes of waste when compared to a other options which takes the waste directly out of town (CS for example). When compared to the yearly savings between the two, it will take MMK 110 years to recover the $1.6 million capital costs through the transportation savings realized by the TS. Have a lovely time waiting to recover your money, by that time age will dictate you get curbside anyway, cuz you'll probably be at least 140 years old.
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Postby uscitizen03054 » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:41 pm

Were you alive last year?

MMK HAD a specific bid, three of them to be exact. The lowest was for $1.6 million for the whole town, 5 year committment. We were then told by the BOS Chair multi-year contracts were impossible, despite the fact they're IN PLACE in every muni department. Add $250K to operate a drop off site and you're at $1.825M, a far sight from $2.3M.



Yes, I was attempting to talk some sense into you about the War on Terror but I was not aware of the numbers you post.

Transfer stations offer no "utility", it is nothing more than a rest area for trash.


I disagree because I can take my trash out anytime I want.
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Postby RBarnes » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:45 pm

uscitizen03054 wrote:
Transfer stations offer no "utility", it is nothing more than a rest area for trash.


I disagree because I can take my trash out anytime I want.


Point is YOU have to take your trash vs. having it picked up directly at the curb. When you make up in flexablity in schecualing you lose in the aditional time you have to take to haul the trash.
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Postby uscitizen03054 » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:47 pm

Point is YOU have to take your trash vs. having it picked up directly at the curb. When you make up in flexablity in schecualing you lose in the aditional time you have to take to haul the trash.


Barnes, this is a reasonable point but for the last N years I have done this so now I am use to it.
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Postby RBarnes » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:48 pm

Mark Fitzgerald wrote:The lowest was for $1.6 million for the whole town, 5 year commitment. We were then told by the BOS Chair multi-year contracts were impossible, despite the fact they're IN PLACE in every muni department. Add $250K to operate a drop off site and you're at $1.825M, a far sight from $2.3M.


I never realized the 1.8 million would have included the bulky item drop off site. The more you start to look at the real numbers the harder it is for anyone to justify the TS.
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Postby Mark Fitzgerald » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:50 pm

I disagree because I can take my trash out anytime I want.


Congrats, it'll only cost an additional $700,000 every year for the priviledge. More power to you.
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Postby uscitizen03054 » Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:00 pm

Congrats, it'll only cost an additional $700,000 every year for the priviledge. More power to you.


Mark, I'll trust you on the $700K but you need to divide that by some number of people who will benefit from the flexibility to self haul. Anyway you slice it this is chicken feed when it comes to costs. Let's have some real cuts in the budget.
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Postby RBarnes » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:15 am

uscitizen03054 wrote:
Congrats, it'll only cost an additional $700,000 every year for the priviledge. More power to you.


Mark, I'll trust you on the $700K but you need to divide that by some number of people who will benefit from the flexibility to self haul. Anyway you slice it this is chicken feed when it comes to costs. Let's have some real cuts in the budget.


$700k divided by 9,000 homes (I could be wrong but I thought someone mentioned that as the number of homes in Merrimack, if not insert the correct number and recalculate) comes out to be roughly....

$77 per home on average.

So you're suggesting that it is worth it for the few people who have time during the day in order for them to have flexibility (remember most people work during the day hours so they only have choices of Sat and Thursday night during the summer) to pay $77 extra a year AND to have to haul it all the way to the north end of town and spend a half hour or more a week rather then just put it out to the curb (and save that $77 a year)?

Personally I would like an extra $77 in my pocket during tax time and I wouldn't mind an extra half hour of free time per week either. But apparently you do not see an extra $77 a year as REAL money since you would rather see “REAL cuts”. Care to define then what would make up a real cut?
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Postby uscitizen03054 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:33 am

Care to define then what would make up a real cut?


Barnes, please consider. The number of town employees who receive 100% of their benefits paid for by the taxpayers. Additionally, consider the number of employees who receive retirement benefits paid for by the taxpayers. At one point, I don’t have the exact post, someone said the benefits programs alone cost the taxpayer ~$17K per employee. Moving to a co-pay program and self-directed 401K could reduce the tax rate in a significant manner.
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Postby Shannon Barnes » Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:29 am

US--

Please quantify the tax savings? See, Rick has put forth #s. A bunch is not a # I can put in my tax budget. Can you at least give an EDUCATED guess to how much the 401K vs. pension will save as well as co-pays on health benefits in addition to the employee contribution to the program. I will help get you started with HYPOTHETICAL scenarios. Say the plan for health benefits equates to $50 per paycheck for a family plan. That is a $1300 annual contribution. This would be multiplied by the # of NON-UNION employees (as benefit changes cannot be made with a collective bargaining unit arbitrarily). Let's make the # 30 non-union employees. $1300 x 30 = $39,000 in tax savings. Now let's look at 401K. Of the 30 NON-UNION employees, say the average contribution is 5% and the average salary is $50,000 and we match the 5%. That will COST the town $75000 per year. How much is the pension plan costing us to date annually on our taxes? Wiithout those answers, take Rick's advice and look at SW savings options. Until you come up with how the benefits changes will save tax $$$, the argument lacks substance.

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