Split from town elections who is running?

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Split from town elections who is running?

Postby empty wallet » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:33 am

wont it be great when noone wants to pay to haul their own trash to the dump and we all hire private collection services and the money we spent on the transfer station will have all been wasted and noone will recycle and our resources willbe further depleted
its pretty disgusting that someone who doesnt recycle at all is telling us we should institute a payt system tyo encourage recycling
when this plan fails you will finally see the light 95k to institute the bags then how much every month for more bags and the bag police and im sure that the retailers are just going to sell them for cost happily and not make any profit for their use of their retail space for our bags not to mention the cost of more non biodegradables in the landfills where our waste actually ends up due to the addition of yet more plastic bags and the petroleum wasted on them
if you cant see how these costs are going to mount then go along with tim and tom and their private agenda/vendetta against the transfer staion so they can save more municipal employee jobs and their unaffordable pensions
what they really want to do is have everyone on curbside pickup and no recycling at all which what they already do of their own perogative and feel since they dont use the ts they shouldnt have to pay
so who is really the envormentally friendly here the people who already use the transfer staion and recycle and pay their share or the whining babies looking to save 12 cents
If Thomas Jefferson thought taxation without representation was bad, he should see how it is with representation.
-- Rush Limbaugh

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.--George Bernard Shaw
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Re: town elections who is running?

Postby empty wallet » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:36 am

this doesnt even speak of the underhanded way this was shoved down our throats at the hands of tim and tom after we have voted this down at least 7 times
If Thomas Jefferson thought taxation without representation was bad, he should see how it is with representation.
-- Rush Limbaugh

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.--George Bernard Shaw
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Re: town elections who is running?

Postby Tom Mahon » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:19 am

'empty wallet' please enumerate the 7 times that "we" have rejected PAYT.
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Re: town elections who is running?

Postby RBarnes » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:26 am

Wow empty wallet, you have quite a few inaccuracies in your post.

empty wallet wrote:if you cant see how these costs are going to mount then go along with tim and tom and their private agenda/vendetta against the transfer staion so they can save more municipal employee jobs and their unaffordable pensions


Actually it's the transfer station that has the municipal employees and their unaffordable pensions. If the town were to close it down and switch to town wide curbside as was the other option when the transfer station was put up to a vote, we would be contracting with an outside private company. No government employees, just the private market.

Keeping the transfer station open keeps the government jobs working there with their "unaffordable pensions". It also keeps us paying MORE for less service since the transfer station only services 1/3 of the town and costs almost the same as full town curbside would have cost. Not to mention when the tipping rate spike as it was suggested it will when our contract runs out in 2012 we're going to see a huge tax increase and we'll actually be paying more for a service that requires us to drive all the way across town to manually dump our trash instead of being able to just leave it on our curb.

Transfer supporters keep talking about illegal dumping but they don't want to discuss all the trash that just falls out of poorly packed trucks and cars driving across town. A problem that wouldn't exist if the trash only had to make it as far as the curb.

empty wallet wrote:what they really want to do is have everyone on curbside pickup and no recycling at all which what they already do of their own perogative and feel since they dont use the ts they shouldnt have to pay
so who is really the envormentally friendly here the people who already use the transfer staion and recycle and pay their share or the whining babies looking to save 12 cents


Actually the curbside plan put up a few years ago included recycling. And it would be beneficial to the town regardless of how the trash is picked up (either curbside or middleman transfer station) to recycle because the less trash that goes into a pit the less we pay out as a town.

I'll tell you right now that if the town does eventually switch to curbside (which I think it eventually will) and we don't implement recycling I'll be the one standing outside with a petition looking for signatures to get it on the ballot.
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Re: town elections who is running?

Postby Dennis King » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:30 am

Why is it that every thread ends up talking about trash!
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Re: town elections who is running?

Postby Fitzie » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:40 am

Dennis King wrote:Why is it that every thread ends up talking about trash!


Because it is a microcosm of the over philosphical disagreement between the people. The TS has turned into a symbol. Why? Because it isn't serving the majority but being paid for by everyone.

PS ....and it never, ever, ever, ever will. Never. :)
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Re: town elections who is running?

Postby Dennis King » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:11 am

Fitzie wrote:
Dennis King wrote:Why is it that every thread ends up talking about trash!


Because it is a microcosm of the over philosphical disagreement between the people. The TS has turned into a symbol. Why? Because it isn't serving the majority but being paid for by everyone.

PS ....and it never, ever, ever, ever will. Never. :)


6500 single family homes vs 2200 condo, oh why bother anymore, you keep adding all the commercial properties to make your argument and of course, the gas we use to travel to the dump, it never ends, all in the effort to get what you want, you moved away and still, you are obsessed with this. I had no problem with Tim putting this on the warrant for the people to decide. Even with all the lies, I still trusted the people but no, Tim used the warrant as an excuse to bring the agenda back to the TC and then to IMPOSE PAYT on us. It is precisely because they knew even with all your "education", the people would not stand for it, so why bother with democracy when you can impose your will with Tyranny. That does seem to be the liberal way, demonize your opponent and then you can impose whatever you want.
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Re: town elections who is running?

Postby Fitzie » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:23 am

You're right, you shouldn't bother. If you were honest you'd acknowledge the current system is failing and will continue to fail. Instead however you've tried everything in your arsenal to "make it work" including asking a private entity to take it over with zero cost control in exchange for allowing them the honor of providing MMK with CS. Oh yea, and then YOU demonized condo owners, essentially labeling them 2nd class citizens because of the taxes they pay until you were slapped in the face with the FACT YOU fall right within the group YOU were demonizing. That was funny, I have to say. What was sad....very sad indeed....was your next attempt to save your argument by referencing "averages".

You can't make the wrong solution "right" no matter how hard you try Dennis.

Oh, and I've never added commercial properties. Don't need to. Someone else did that and to be honest I don't know if it matters or not. It certainly makes the argument that much worse from your position however. I do think that since commercial properties pay taxes too that they should be given some consideration. How much? I dunno, that's up to them to argue.
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Re: town elections who is running?

Postby tim dutton » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:29 am

Move Trash comments to correct forum
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Re: Split from town elections who is running?

Postby empty wallet » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:22 pm

if you recall at the meeting tt suggested that the monies he implied might be saved by going to pay as you throw would pay for the layoffs the the town was enacting for 2 police and 1 fire employees to be reversed and not lose their position
as i recall we hired 5 new police when obama took over and used govt funds we didnt have to pay for these new hires now there is no money to pay for those 5 jobs we want to remove 2 and now they will be kept instead on the backs of pay as you throw fee payers

and i have been living in this town since 1975 and payt has been suggested put on the table and dumped or defeated at least 7 times since that date

choke on your $95k bags i will never purchase one

whether one third two thirds or none of the town use the transfer staion it is available for all the town it is your decision to use it or not use it
If Thomas Jefferson thought taxation without representation was bad, he should see how it is with representation.
-- Rush Limbaugh

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.--George Bernard Shaw
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Re: town elections who is running?

Postby Tim Tenhave » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:08 pm

Dennis King wrote:Tim used the warrant as an excuse to bring the agenda back to the TC and then to IMPOSE PAYT on us. It is precisely because they knew even with all your "education", the people would not stand for it, so why bother with democracy when you can impose your will with Tyranny. That


Dennis,

In multiple places you tell people not to attack you or lie about you. What do you call this?

I call it an attack (my words are available on streaming video for you and everyone to see) as I never said or implied this. You rant about my imposition is also a lie. My motives were clearly stated at the meeting.

I won't use the big letters or funny colors or anything else, it is simply a lie. :(

If you can't argue with facts Dennis, time to stop arguing. My words are there for everyone to see and hear. Stop misrepresenting me just because you disagree.

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Re: Split from town elections who is running?

Postby Fitzie » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:19 pm

empty wallet wrote:if you recall at the meeting tt suggested that the monies he implied might be saved by going to pay as you throw would pay for the layoffs the the town was enacting for 2 police and 1 fire employees to be reversed and not lose their position
as i recall we hired 5 new police when obama took over and used govt funds we didnt have to pay for these new hires now there is no money to pay for those 5 jobs we want to remove 2 and now they will be kept instead on the backs of pay as you throw fee payers

and i have been living in this town since 1975 and payt has been suggested put on the table and dumped or defeated at least 7 times since that date

choke on your $95k bags i will never purchase one

whether one third two thirds or none of the town use the transfer staion it is available for all the town it is your decision to use it or not use it



Look this isn't difficult to understand if you're actually interested in understanding it and not just fond of complaining against "the man".

Didn't see the meeting, haven't read the transcipts, don't care to do either. BUT I would bet dollars to doughnuts the "savings" being referenced are really reallocation of costs, removing the burden of a majority of the costs for the TS OFF the tax base and placing it ON the TS users. The resulting allocation would allow, I'm guessing, for the GENERAL funds CURRENTLY being allocated to the TS to instead be used to retain however many policemen and firemen. That's a guess, but I bet it's not far off.

If I'm right you have a question to ask yourself....

What do you want more? A TS on the general tax rate or the policement and firemen currently scheduled to be let go? Remember however that you CAN have a TS AND the policemen and firemen....as long as the TS is funded by....shock, horror......those who USE it.
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Re: town elections who is running?

Postby Dennis King » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:23 pm

Tim Tenhave wrote:
Dennis King wrote:Tim used the warrant as an excuse to bring the agenda back to the TC and then to IMPOSE PAYT on us. It is precisely because they knew even with all your "education", the people would not stand for it, so why bother with democracy when you can impose your will with Tyranny. That


Dennis,

In multiple places you tell people not to attack you or lie about you. What do you call this?

I call it an attack (my words are available on streaming video for you and everyone to see) as I never said or implied this. You rant about my imposition is also a lie. My motives were clearly stated at the meeting.

I won't use the big letters or funny colors or anything else, it is simply a lie. :(

If you can't argue with facts Dennis, time to stop arguing. My words are there for everyone to see and hear. Stop misrepresenting me just because you disagree.

Tim


Yes indeed Tim, everything I said was true, it is all on the tape.

Fact: You got the signatures for a warrant, the purpose of which is to ASK the people if they want to implement PAYT
Fact: After presenting your warrant to the TC, you then suggested they simply put PAYT in their budget and then went on to suggest what other things can be paid from the "found revenue"
Fact: the TC agreed with you and voted in Dan's own words, to FORCE us to accept PAYT. The discussion was interesting as they said they would in essence nullify your warrant, after all, once you make the decision for the people BEFORE you even ask them, well, that nullifies their votes.
FACT: I was all for your warrant to go to the people, what you did was to ask the TC to go rouge, to use their power and IMPOSE PAYT on us, the worst part, you used the democratic device of the warrant article to ask the people as an excuse to ask the TC to "take the lead" and impose it on us. Very sad and the first time since our founding that the town leaders simply imposed their will. Worst, they all admitted there was "no way" this would pass if it went to a vote. I am sure you knew that as well otherwise you would have just had the warrant moved forward and let the people decide.

Funny, you liberals are all about choice but only for you, when you decide what is best for everyone and you can not spin your arguments to have them vote for it (despite years of demonizing self haulers), well then the ends justifies the means, ignore the democratic process and IMPOSE your will. These are the simple facts of what you did to us Tim, plain and simple, for all to see!
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Re: town elections who is running?

Postby Fitzie » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:51 pm

Dennis King wrote:
Tim Tenhave wrote:
Dennis King wrote:Tim used the warrant as an excuse to bring the agenda back to the TC and then to IMPOSE PAYT on us. It is precisely because they knew even with all your "education", the people would not stand for it, so why bother with democracy when you can impose your will with Tyranny. That


Dennis,

In multiple places you tell people not to attack you or lie about you. What do you call this?

I call it an attack (my words are available on streaming video for you and everyone to see) as I never said or implied this. You rant about my imposition is also a lie. My motives were clearly stated at the meeting.

I won't use the big letters or funny colors or anything else, it is simply a lie. :(

If you can't argue with facts Dennis, time to stop arguing. My words are there for everyone to see and hear. Stop misrepresenting me just because you disagree.

Tim


Yes indeed Tim, everything I said was true, it is all on the tape.

Fact: You got the signatures for a warrant, the purpose of which is to ASK the people if they want to implement PAYT
Fact: After presenting your warrant to the TC, you then suggested they simply put PAYT in their budget and then went on to suggest what other things can be paid from the "found revenue"
Fact: the TC agreed with you and voted in Dan's own words, to FORCE us to accept PAYT. The discussion was interesting as they said they would in essence nullify your warrant, after all, once you make the decision for the people BEFORE you even ask them, well, that nullifies their votes.
FACT: I was all for your warrant to go to the people, what you did was to ask the TC to go rouge, to use their power and IMPOSE PAYT on us, the worst part, you used the democratic device of the warrant article to ask the people as an excuse to ask the TC to "take the lead" and impose it on us. Very sad and the first time since our founding that the town leaders simply imposed their will. Worst, they all admitted there was "no way" this would pass if it went to a vote. I am sure you knew that as well otherwise you would have just had the warrant moved forward and let the people decide.

Funny, you liberals are all about choice but only for you, when you decide what is best for everyone and you can not spin your arguments to have them vote for it (despite years of demonizing self haulers), well then the ends justifies the means, ignore the democratic process and IMPOSE your will. These are the simple facts of what you did to us Tim, plain and simple, for all to see!


Get some help. Really. You view yourself as a victim of.....everyone and everything. Here's a news flash......you're not THAT important that people sit around thinking up ways to screw you.

The TS is a failed enterprise. YOU have acknowledged this with your recognition of the economic realities of ever-increasing tipping fees and suggestion that MMK go CS with the vendor also agreeing to run the TS. A natural extension of this is PAYT because, as previously noted, no business is going to take financial responsibility for something without being given control over the COSTS.

Here's another news flash........if you truly want the TS to survive you should be recognizing the reality that PAYT is it's only hope outside of your ability (and I guess perhaps McCray's and Malzone's but for different reasons) to play on people's fear. I don't think however you have the juice this time around. That, and it's going to be difficult to ignore the TS's record to date.
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Re: town elections who is running?

Postby Dennis King » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:04 pm

[quote="Fitzie"
Get some help. Really. You view yourself as a victim of.....everyone and everything. Here's a news flash......you're not THAT important that people sit around thinking up ways to screw you.[/quote]

This has nothing to do with me and everything thing to do with the town. My beef with Tim has nothing to do with PAYT, I was OK with his warrant, what I object to is using the warrant as an excuse to reopen the discussion on PAYT and then to suggest to the TC that they negate the very warrant article he brought forth supposedly for the people to decide. I believe he called it "leadership", I call it tyranny. Not sure if you can really see this attack on democracy since you have those kill the TS at all costs glasses on but you must be a liberal so democratic process is a waste of time. Funny, the same people who rammed through healthcare without even reading the bill are the same ones now who run away out of state to avoid losing the vote.

The ends never justifies the means. Once we abandon democracy and replace it with a government that "Forces" us to bend to their will, well then we are no longer free, tyranny now reigns in Merrimack and the taxpayers will now have to bend and stoop to the dictates of their sovereign lords and masters, The TC.
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