PAYT is Back

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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby bobandgeri » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:34 pm

Dennis King wrote:Curbside pick up is already privatized Wayne, I would like us to privatize the TS, we do not need more union pensions on our hands. The unions have had their way for 30 years, time for a change


Yes Dennis, 2/3rds of the town pay taxes to support the TS and then pay for private trash pickup. The TS should be closed the Merrimack should provide curbside pickup like any other town (almost a small city) the same size.
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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby Wayne » Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:29 pm

Yes that's of course what I meant. 2/3's of the citizens are already paying twice. Dennis doesn't want to pay by the bag, because he already pays for the TS. Getting rid of the TS seems like it's his ideal solution, since it's privatized, cheaper, and everybody pays just once.
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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby bobandgeri » Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:37 pm

Plus if curbside would also provide recycling, then a much larger portion of the town might actualy recycle!
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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby Dennis King » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:03 pm

Do you guys really want to open this pay for just want you use philosophy, if so, the most costly thing our taxes pay for is the schools, the population density of school age children is higher in condos and apartments than homes (which are taxed much higher BTW). The single stream recycling just started, if the goal is reducing waste, lets see how a volunteer program works, as for this whole issue, after years of fighting over this, why open it again, the money "saved" is bound to be far less than the estimate from last year when we did not have single stream recycling. This is all about our town manager looking for more fees so he can save union jobs, the very unions who are causing this crisis in the first place. So now instead of privatizing some services, he chooses to have this town wide war start all over again, how cynical. While he sits in his new office with the great new carpet smell and a wonderful new elevator he can play with, we taxpayers are once again being asked to pay more to save what, unions who for 30 years have pressed their demands to the breaking point. I find his tactics to be shameful, even if he does it in suit pants. (inside joke). Yes Keith, I do follow what you say and know an insult when I hear it. Let us stay on the issues at hand. Frankly I am shocked that you would bring this up again after last years brawl.

All you curbsiders and school supporters, funny, when I bring up the biggest inequity, I hear crickets. The same people who support the whole town paying for the schools are the very ones pushing to stick the self haulers with PAYT. Seems hypocritical to me, let's privatize the TS, bet you save far more than the cost of those PAYT bags and our town will save on the cost of trash removal from our parks and quiet places because as other towns have found, people will start to throw their trash in the parks and the end of dead end roads. I for one do not want to see our town become one giant toilet all because the union pensions cost us more and the answer our town manger could only come up with is "NEW FEES", it requires you to demonize the people so you can tax them and if you add the smugness factor (we are better than them and like our own f**** -see Southpark for reference, you have that certain moral superiority. Very well played Keith, of course, the firestorm this starts will be on your shoulders but maybe that is not a bad idea, once the people are forced to go PAYT, I predict a backlash that will bring far more privatization than one would predict, heck, maybe even the town manager position could be privatized!
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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby Scott Kepnes » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:10 am

How do you know that?

Dennis King wrote:The same people who support the whole town paying for the schools are the very ones pushing to stick the self haulers with PAYT.
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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby MissyB » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:52 am

I have to say that I agree with you, chancellor. I think privitization should be explored also. I think more town functions than have been mentioned here could be privitized. In the story I saw on Sandy Pines, GA, workers were cleaning the streets and I could think of other town functions as well. Jeannine posted links to other towns. I know that most of the budget is personnel and benefits. It seems to me that the town would need to purchase and maintain less equipment. Enterprising town employees could start their own business and bid for the contract. I really think this may be the way to go in the future. There is only so much tax money to be had.
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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby Dennis King » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:04 am

Scott Kepnes wrote:How do you know that?

Dennis King wrote:The same people who support the whole town paying for the schools are the very ones pushing to stick the self haulers with PAYT.


Just go back a little on this thread Scott, you will see both Stan H and Ken C. make this very point. Frankly, the schools have been immune from any criticism for so long, I guess they feel it is some protected class. For my money, I would love to have the whole school privatized but I know that is asking a lot, for starters, lets phase out the public kindergarten (just a grab for union jobs, before this, we had a choice of about 20 programs), then move the middle school back to the Mastricola complex and lets use the middle school as a charter school grades 1-8. Sure would like to see the ideas for this school and I have to wonder if we do not see a push to expand it once it is in. In a charter school, you can have uniforms, longer school days, longer school years, and teachers being paid by PERFORMANCE. Those who do not make the grade are let go, funny but doesn't that happen in the real world? Time to really look at PRIVATIZATION
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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby andysinnh » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:57 am

Dennis King wrote:
Scott Kepnes wrote:How do you know that?

Dennis King wrote:The same people who support the whole town paying for the schools are the very ones pushing to stick the self haulers with PAYT.


Just go back a little on this thread Scott, you will see both Stan H and Ken C. make this very point. Frankly, the schools have been immune from any criticism for so long, I guess they feel it is some protected class. For my money, I would love to have the whole school privatized but I know that is asking a lot, for starters, lets phase out the public kindergarten (just a grab for union jobs, before this, we had a choice of about 20 programs), then move the middle school back to the Mastricola complex and lets use the middle school as a charter school grades 1-8. Sure would like to see the ideas for this school and I have to wonder if we do not see a push to expand it once it is in. In a charter school, you can have uniforms, longer school days, longer school years, and teachers being paid by PERFORMANCE. Those who do not make the grade are let go, funny but doesn't that happen in the real world? Time to really look at PRIVATIZATION

Dennis- I know you have gone one long and hard about the TS and against PAYT - but trying to lump "pro school" into "Pro Self Haulers PAYT" is a stretch, even by your standards. Thanks for helping people to lump categories together here - it just dilutes your POV.

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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby Dennis King » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:32 pm

Andy, the concept is simple, for the schools, Ken and Stan say the town should pay as a whole but for PAYT, it is OK to tax one group instead of us all. Very simple concept!
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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby chancellor » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:49 pm

I have to agree with Dennis. His argument raises interesting points that should be considered... why wouldn't pay-for-use be applied to everything; I suspect that there is great fear embedded in the changes that people like myself, Dennis and others are behind. Privatization isn't a bad thing when it makes sense. If the hue and cry from the people of Merrimack is strong enough, will the TC consider (seriously consider) privatization... at least study it to see if it would yield better results? This is a sincere question, TC. Would it be considered?

thanks
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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby lynn » Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:36 pm

put an article on the warrant next spring - you find out how TC and people feel
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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby chancellor » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:35 pm

Thanks for the response, Lynn. But I am curious to hear from those TC members who post on this forum what they think?
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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby lynn » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:36 pm

my point is you will have no idea of the majority of the votes/tax payers opinion unless you put it on the ballot
not enough people go to ANY meeting/public hearing, call the TC/SB, or voice an opinion in any other way
The handfull that post on this forum cannot be counted on the be indicative of how most of the people in town feel
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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby chancellor » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:49 pm

Lynn

That makes sense. Thanks very much for taking time to answer.

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Re: PAYT is Back

Postby Dennis King » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:17 am

Lynn, it should not require a warrant from the people to have the TM and TC do the right thing. Privatization does work and it makes the most sense. Think of it, union pensions are the reason we are expected to pay more, why shouldn't we reduce our exposure to these exorbitant pensions while at the same time reducing costs to the town, a win win in any book. The problem comes when the town simply would rather find fees rather than cut costs. I sure do hope when then sit down at their new studio and visit the town manager in his new office, that they all enjoy the new carpet smell courtesy of the cable subscriber FEES (aka TAXES). I think Dan disappoints me the most, 30 seconds is all it took to take fed money for Waston Park, anyone stuck in the traffic jam yesterday? Imagine that with all the out of towners coming up DWH and of course, we can not make it a town park (wonder if they even took the time to ask Mr. Watson, after all, he bought and donated the land to the TOWN, not sure if he wanted the feds to take it over but hey, 30 seconds was long enough to think it out, money is money, let the strings come later. I also expected Dan to embrace privatization but all I hear is crickets, the liberals on the TC are happy to keep union jobs and if the state makes us pay more for their retirement, well, lets increase "user fees", hence the push for PAYT. Never mind it opened up all the hurt feelings from the last debate, I HAD MY HOME SHOT AT just for speaking my mind. Yes this is volatile, any wonder most do not want to relive the past! I sure don't but our brave town manager has no compunction in opening up this firestorm just to save some union jobs and the lavish pensions that go with it. Wake up taxpayers, these people make over a million more in retirement than they put in, guess who makes up the difference! You and me and if we can reduce the number of town aka union employees, we can not only get the same job done for less, but we can also save this liability. The unions had 30 years to fix this and all they did was raise their salaries, increase their perks and maintain a pension system that for most of us in the real world, went away 30 years ago!
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