Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby RBarnes » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:10 pm

mmoy wrote:Trash is in a different class of service than most other municipal services because with other things, the resident gets something from the city or town. In the case of trash, the resident is getting rid of something. This creates the problem of illegal dumping which is most unlike utilities. And even utilities are regulated by the government.


It is for this reason I suggest a fee for the sticker paid yearly rather then charging per bag. Unless you are going to illegally dump every piece of trash you have, you have no option. And if you are stupid enough to dump everything then its very easy to catch someone stupid enough to toss out a letter or envelope with their name and address on it.
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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby Brian McCarthy » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:58 pm

If you listen to the reasons given at last night's meeting, they were 'its not ready'. The bulky items, the flow of traffic, the education, the impact of SW workers are all things that need to be looked at and have a plan in place.

Would it have been doable - yes, just like the tax rate cap, its not ready.

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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby Wayne » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:08 pm

I wasn't aware that a decision was going to be made last night, but I had no doubt that the room was going to be packed with people that want to continue their free ride. I heard the usual arguments about how this is just another tax, attendants will be standing by to examine your trash as they enforce mandatory recycling, they couldn't understand how pre-paid bags would work, and even the old free waste disposal is fair because they don't have any kids in school and still have to pay. That last one really appalls me, comparing kids to trash. If you want to make a comparison, then pick something like the WWTP. That's funded entirely by the people that use it, as it should be. Funny, I didn't see any of them asking to have every single taxpayer kick in for the WWTP.

The implementation details weren't all there, I'll admit, but those are just that...details. There certainly was time to get them resolved. I guess the Town Council forgot that 2/3 of the townspeople don't/rarely use the TS, and I'm sure the majority of them don't care to pay for other people's trash. We are wondering what became of the idea of personal responsibility that people in last night's crowd surely espouse.

Yesterday's story in the Telegraph led with someone describing the 10 bags of trash they bring every week. I didn't hear him thanking the rest of us for paying his bill. I heard more than one person make cute remarks last night that they only recycle because "their wife makes them". I pay for curbside pickup of the 1 bag/week that our family of 4 generates, but for years I've made the long trips to the TS just to deliver recycling because it's the environmentally responsible thing to do. That may have just come to an end. I can dump all paper (except cardboard) a whole lot closer to home. The cost of transport of glass and plastics all the way to the TS just may not be worth the effort. Being taken advantage of by freeloaders does that to a person.

By the way, can anyone provide the final vote by the TC? I find it hard to believe that it would have been 7-0.
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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby GregRS » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:02 pm

Wayne wrote:I wasn't aware that a decision was going to be made last night, but I had no doubt that the room was going to be packed with people that want to continue their free ride. I heard the usual arguments about how this is just another tax, attendants will be standing by to examine your trash as they enforce mandatory recycling, they couldn't understand how pre-paid bags would work, and even the old free waste disposal is fair because they don't have any kids in school and still have to pay. That last one really appalls me, comparing kids to trash. If you want to make a comparison, then pick something like the WWTP. That's funded entirely by the people that use it, as it should be. Funny, I didn't see any of them asking to have every single taxpayer kick in for the WWTP.

The implementation details weren't all there, I'll admit, but those are just that...details. There certainly was time to get them resolved. I guess the Town Council forgot that 2/3 of the townspeople don't/rarely use the TS, and I'm sure the majority of them don't care to pay for other people's trash. We are wondering what became of the idea of personal responsibility that people in last night's crowd surely espouse.

Yesterday's story in the Telegraph led with someone describing the 10 bags of trash they bring every week. I didn't hear him thanking the rest of us for paying his bill. I heard more than one person make cute remarks last night that they only recycle because "their wife makes them". I pay for curbside pickup of the 1 bag/week that our family of 4 generates, but for years I've made the long trips to the TS just to deliver recycling because it's the environmentally responsible thing to do. That may have just come to an end. I can dump all paper (except cardboard) a whole lot closer to home. The cost of transport of glass and plastics all the way to the TS just may not be worth the effort. Being taken advantage of by freeloaders does that to a person.

By the way, can anyone provide the final vote by the TC? I find it hard to believe that it would have been 7-0.


Why are you so upset? The proposal was not defeated; it was just deferred because of too many unanswered questions. Besides, there may be better ways to handle TS costs. Last night's NO vote gives the TC time to make a more informed decision regarding PAYT.
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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby TomT » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:17 am

Where was everybody when the Transfer Station was forced on the people of Lawrence Road and the north end? If you didn't want to pay for it why didn't you vote against it then? The TS is there, you are paying for it, use it.

The majority of voters chose to have a Transfer Station and to place it in a residential area. If the majority doesn't use it perhaps the majority should vote to close it.
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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby Joel » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:34 am

I don't think anyone compared kids to trash. I know I compare what programs I'm getting from the town for my taxes and the schools and TS are both assets. I don't think schools or anything else should ever get a blank check and sometimes it seems schools to me get that treatment.

If you are on town water then you pay a bill to the WWTP. That's the way you'll see it in any town or city across the country. As far as the TS goes, I've never had a free ride. The TS was voted on, approved and built and I pay for it every year in taxes. The PAYT is a double tax.
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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby cyclone70 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:47 am

Wayne wrote:I wasn't aware that a decision was going to be made last night, but I had no doubt that the room was going to be packed with people that want to continue their free ride. I heard the usual arguments about how this is just another tax, attendants will be standing by to examine your trash as they enforce mandatory recycling, they couldn't understand how pre-paid bags would work, and even the old free waste disposal is fair because they don't have any kids in school and still have to pay. That last one really appalls me, comparing kids to trash. If you want to make a comparison, then pick something like the WWTP. That's funded entirely by the people that use it, as it should be. Funny, I didn't see any of them asking to have every single taxpayer kick in for the WWTP.


I am the one that spoke about the point that some people in town don't have,never had and will never have children in the school system but are given no break on their taxes.There are services in town that I don't use like the MYA,Library,ballfields,etc. but I am not complaining about it.
I brought up this point because if these people brought this point up they get chastised by people like yourself.
I have put myself in their shoes and can understand their point of view.
I am not in the position of never having kids in the schools but have friends in that situation,but have had that discussion with these friends many times over the years.As we all know the school funding in the majority of the tax bill.

My point was that if we are going to start going to al a carte town services,then let's do it right,not pick and choose.
The bottom line.
There are always going to be services in town that some residents don't use.
The town provides transfer station and I use it for trash/recycling.

If you choose to use curbside pickup that is your option.
Pretty much comparable to residents that send their children to private schools.
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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby RBarnes » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:17 am

Cyclone, Joel and Tom... one point you all miss is that when the adhoc committee first put up the option for a transfer station they said it would only work if pay as you throw was implemented. Go back and read the reports. The idea was there from the start to create an option similar to waste water.

You are also ignoring the fact that the station was sold to the voters based on a lie. The town was told in newspaper ads and fliers that there would be a 1 million dollar tax savings with the transfer station. A good number of voters voted on it based on that. Just look back at the discussions about it on this forum. They used revenue from haulers to show that there would be no tax impact on the portion of town not using it where curbside would impact taxes. We now know that isn't a real fact because the haulers choose to take their business elsewhere thus no revenue... and we've learned that the over all cost of hauling the trash is more then the tipping fee so we currently are subsidizing the trash business of those still using it (which last I knew was only 1 of the towns haulers).

The bottom line of the budget we now see is nearly exact to what we would have paid for curbside and 100% of it is put on the town as tax burden. That isn't what people originally voted for so to claim it is is false. The idea was ALWAYS there to have people pay their own burden, it was sold as being paid for by tipping fees and the ad hoc pointed out that some form of PAYT needed to be put in place.

So your claims that its a "double tax" or that we should have spoken up from day one are just unfounded.
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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby cyclone70 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:47 am

One thing I have learned here in Merrimack.
Never trust the forecasted Revenues from ANY new program that will be implemented.
Look at the Revenue Budget forecast for the pay items (TV,FRIDGE,etc. at the TS
You will see that the majority of those items only realized less than 1/2 of the forecast numbers for most of the items.
The same thing will happen with the forecasted 827K savings with PAYT.
Instead of putting 25-30 lbs. in the $1.50 bag,there may be 60-75 lbs. in those bags.
As the tipping fees are based on weight,the net may be as low as 1/3 of forecast.
People will find ways to buy a minimum of bags.
I heard a lot of people using the words trash compactor.
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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby TomT » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:50 am

RBarnes wrote:You are also ignoring the fact that the station was sold to the voters based on a lie.


Nope, I'm not ignoring the lies. Each and every one of those lies was countered with facts before the vote ever happened. The voters chose to believe the lies.

Pretty much everything about the transfer station has been based on mis-information. The supposed $800,000 dollars in "savings" is just another in a long line of fairy tales based on excessively optimistic assumptions. If they really want to "save" money from the budget just close the whole operation. The other 1/3 of the people in town can use the same private services the majority are using now and all the trash will just get hauled out of town.
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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby Jeannine Stergios » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:47 pm

Tom T

I have to agree with you. I am paying $25 per mo to have my trash hauled away and would probably save at least that on my taxes if it simply went away.

If people have big items to get rid of - call 1-800-JUNK and pay for your own junk to be hauled off.
REPUBLICAN - BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE CAN BE ON WELFARE
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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby Joel » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:48 pm

Rick, I moved to Merrimack after the TS vote took place from out of state. Had I been here for the run up and the vote, who knows I might have voted (probably) for curb side pickup as that is what I had where I lived before. I also voted against the mall but since it passed I'll live with that too.

For anyone who remembers Yul Brenner in "The King and I" one line from that movie is ringing in my ears now. "So let it be written, so let it be done." When something goes for a vote and is debated, facts and figures fly all over the place. For local politics there are NIMBY's, people who have something to gain etc who will plead their respective cases and muddy the water but once the vote is done that's what is written. So it's done.

So I move to town and there's this very nice TS and I take advantage of it because I'm paying for it. Five years later they want me to pay for bags after five years of me not paying above the taxes I already pay. We will just have to disagree, but that's in my view a double tax. I would just ask you to please respect the vote after it's done.
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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby RBarnes » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:07 pm

Joel wrote:I would just ask you to please respect the vote after it's done.


That's just it... this isn't being given a chance to get a vote from the people.
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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby TomT » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:33 pm

PAYT is the wrong thing to vote on. 2/3 of the people don't use the transfer station now and are for all practical purposes on some kind of private PAYT system. Some fairly significant portion of the other 1/3 will stop using the TS if they have to pay for it. The correct thing to vote on would be whether to close the TS and have everyone use private collection.
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Re: Pay to Throw Trash Plan Proposed

Postby hdw » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:18 pm

If the town mis-manager wants to propose this, I have seven acres in Merrimack, drop it off here for half the price or throw it on the street for free as many do. I have had more tires and computers/TVs dropped on my property since the town mis-manager has changed the rules. What we need is a TEA PARTY. Clear the house of all these (ACORN) money grubbing leeches. Dan Wade, Merrimack, aka HDW

PS: I hope this isn't to strong or a sign of frustration! God save our sinking "SUNK" ship.
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