Watch your wallets! Curbside will cost this town millions!

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Watch your wallets! Curbside will cost this town millions!

Postby betty » Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:51 pm

Very Simple, a transfer station will save us over a million a year in costs over the curbside. The curbside supporters ignore this reality by putting out 6 month numbers rather than yearly figures and they only talk about the first year.

They are just flat out wrong that the condos will be included.

IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

The condos will have the option to use local haullers and they will have a choice in vendors, not a mandate. Just how much fun has Adelphia been? Do you really want to bring in another monopoly?

Can you really trust numbers from people who live on that road or their friends? Think about it, they will say anything and do anything to get it of the road. They play with the numbers to get the results they want and then parade them out as fact. I encourage every taxpayer who does not want to fork over an extra million or so a year so Mark Fitzgeralds home value goes up to come to the deliberative session. Stop the madness. We can take back this town.
Betty
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Postby Mark Fitzgerald » Tue Feb 04, 2003 3:40 pm

Just to remind readers what the Ad-hoc committee unanimously agreed to in terms of yearly costs beyond the first year of operation, I copy below their findings relative to the options we now have before us. The Ad-hoc was made up of three former selectmen, 2 sitting selectmen, 3 sitting budget committee members, 2 former SWAC members, one state representative and one local hauler. Not only were these costs unanimously agreed to by Ad-hoc members, they were accepted by 4 of the 5 sitting selectmen as fact. I leave it to the readers to believe the figures this group generated or betty's claims regarding costs. Thank you for your time.


OPTION 1
TRANSFER STATION AT THE EXISTING SITE
13,300 Square Foot Transfer Station at the exisitng Fearon Road site

Up Front Capital Costs: $873,000 (+ $1,360,00 from SWDF)

Ammortized Capital Cost: $110,329
Operating Cost: $1,289,801
Private Collection/Self Haul Cost: $983,231

Yearly Total Cost: $2,383,361

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OPTION 4
CURBSIDE COLLECTION of waste and recycling by single vendor - both taken directly out of town, existing recycling center modified to accept occasional resident delivery and bulky items.

Up Front Capital Costs: $0 (SWDF remaining = $1,071,250)

Ammortized Capital Cost: $0
Operating Cost: $1,824,000
Private Collection/Self Haul Cost: $0

Yearly Total Cost: $1,824,000
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Re: Watch your wallets! Curbside will cost this town million

Postby Norman Phillips » Tue Feb 04, 2003 3:46 pm

betty wrote:They are just flat out wrong that the condos will be included.

IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

The condos will have the option to use local haullers and they will have a choice in vendors, not a mandate. Just how much fun has Adelphia been? Do you really want to bring in another monopoly?


"Betty". Consider the following points.
  • Conside a condo group that has now a contract with a large hauler such as Waste Management, BFI, Casella, etc. Only a small fraction of condos are not included in this group.
  • That vendor has stated that he/she can haul waste away more cheaply to a different site than a Merrimack transfer station with its tipping fee of $90.
  • DPW agrees with this assessment and therefore only expects to get waste from local haulers and self-haulers.
  • They did this in the data presented to the Budget Committee last week.
  • Therefore it follows, as day follows night, that it will also cost the condos more to use a vendor paying the Merrimack tipping fee than it will to go with their present hauler.
  • If you are a savvy condo dweller or condo manager, what would you do, " Betty" ??


Your invoking of Adelphia is completely off base. As I and others have posted, Adelphia owns the cables, not the town. And therefore Adelphia has some cards that a waste hauler simply does not have. I can imagine the Town changing waste contractors, but that ease of changing waste contractors simply does not exist for changing cable providers. I suspect that you are getting a bit desperate, "Betty".

The economic reasoning you demonstrate is not a good recommendation for a candidate for Selectman, in my opinion.
Sincerely, Norm Phillips
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Postby betty » Tue Feb 04, 2003 4:11 pm

Norman, if what you say is true about condos using major haullers to send it out of town, why would the town get involved in this anyway. People in condos pay to have their lawns mowed, trees trimmed, snow removed, and trash picked up. It is all part of condo life. Why should the town be in this equation? The answer is simple, you want to offer them something more and tell them they are gettiing screwed by the self haulers.

It is all part of the great lie. People are watching. They see how you and the bc took on the bos and in effect made policy. If the services in this town are indeed cut, you and your cohorts (Dick Hinch, Ed Silva, et al) will be the ones responsible. This train wreck is of your design and you will have to live with the consequences.
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Postby Mark Fitzgerald » Tue Feb 04, 2003 4:51 pm

betty stated:

Norman, if what you say is true about condos using major haullers to send it out of town, why would the town get involved in this anyway. People in condos pay to have their lawns mowed, trees trimmed, snow removed, and trash picked up. It is all part of condo life. Why should the town be in this equation?


I believe this statement helps us understand the problem we face here in Merrimack. Of course the town should be involved in the waste disposal for these members of our community, its silly to suggest otherwise. This is especially true since they WILL BE PAYING FOR THE OPERATION OF OUR FACILITY. To exclude them yet force them to pay for our system in their taxes is no different than placing the Waste Water Treatment Facility on the tax rate. Nobody would stand for this for one minute, yet when the issue turns from sewage to solid waste nobody seems to mind (at least nobody on the BOS). To add insult to injury, $750,000 of the $1,500,000 in the Solid Waste Disposal Fund BELONGS TO THE CONDO OWNERS. If the BOS puts forth a TS article with PAYT, then they'd have something to hang their hat on. They's still be paying for a building that won't service them, but at least they'd be relieved of having to support the yearly costs of that facility and the waste delivered by self-haulers. At the moment, they are proposing the worst possible scenario for condo owners.

All the Budget Committee ever asked for is what the Town Moderator has told the BOS MUST appear in the warrant articles.......the full cost of each option.
Mark Fitzgerald
 

Postby Norman Phillips » Tue Feb 04, 2003 4:58 pm

betty wrote:Norman, if what you say is true about condos using major haullers to send it out of town, why would the town get involved in this anyway.
Betty, you must know that
  • 1) The Town is required by state Law to provide a way for residents to get rid of trash.
  • 2 All property owners must pay taxes to cover the cost of any municipal actitivity that is not funded by fees of some kind.
  • Therefore condominium dwellers are inextricably involved ithrough their property tax in the Solid Waste Disposal system.
  • There is nothing you or I can do to prevent this involvement.
    People in condos pay to have their lawns mowed, trees trimmed, snow removed, and trash picked up. It is all part of condo life. Why should the town be in this equation? The answer is simple, you want to offer them something more and tell them they are gettiing screwed by the self haulers.
    Betty, I repeat from an earlier post, that I recall you stating quite loudly on a Thursday evening late last year, that you did not like curbside because a transfer station would serve all people, including condominiums and business You now know that that is a pipe dream, "Betty", and that as far as the condos are concerned, it is curbside that will serve them, not a transfer station.
It is all part of the great lie. People are watching. They see how you and the bc took on the bos and in effect made policy. If the services in this town are indeed cut, you and your cohorts (Dick Hinch, Ed Silva, et al) will be the ones responsible. This train wreck is of your design and you will have to live with the consequences.
Betty
Betty, as I understand it, all that the BC has asked for is a fairly stated warrant article that lists the total appropriation so voters know what they are appropriating. IS THAT SO DIFFICULT TO COMPREHEND OR COMPLY WITH?
Sincerely, Norm Phillips
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Postby carmen vacchiano » Tue Feb 04, 2003 5:12 pm

betty im neither a friend of normans or marks but i am the president of the crosswoods path homeowners association. i can tell you the facts of our association only but here they are. we presently pay buckley 7436.00 dollars a year to pick up our trash curbside for 50 homes and this service works great that equals 148.72 per home per year. we also pay property taxes on full size single family homes. which include our portion of the costs to run the present landfill.if you can explain to me why id ever be in favor of paying for a transfer station and paying buckley to haul my trash to that transfer station why would i not just want to support curbsude and just pay once.if buckleys costs go up to take my trash to thge transfer station and my taxes go up for thge transfer station why would i ever support it.this is not a lawrence road issue for us as im sure for the other associations in towns its purely a dollars and sense issue. i for one unless you logically convince me other wise have to to support curbside ive seen my taxes go thru the roof in the 3 years since moving here. but have seen no increase in any kind of service
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Postby betty » Tue Feb 04, 2003 5:34 pm

Norm, Mark, The full cost were supplied to the bc MANY TIMES OVER! Each time you came back with more more more! The bos tried to comply but the simple truth is, you won't accept our numbers. That in a nutshell is the problem. You insist on using inflated numbers to make curbside cheaper when you know full well that the ts is over a million dollars cheaper!
Betty
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Postby betty » Tue Feb 04, 2003 5:47 pm

Carmen, your situation is exactly what I am talking about. You currently use one of the local haulers and at about $150/year, that's a bargin. While it is true the cost for tipping fees will go up to $90/ton, Waste Management is at $85/ton and they would be servicing you with those giant trucks rather than a smaller local one. Since they would be a monoploy like Adelphia, we would be locked into a contract and you and your neighbors would have no choice. The truth is the transfer station keeps the option for local or regional haulers alive. The competion will allow you leverage when negotiating a contract from among 10 or more vendors. Surely you can see how this would benefit all condo owners. Lastly, the transfer facility will save over a million dollars a year in taxes compared to curbside. Camen you say your taxes are too high. I agree, Don't be fooled by people who have done nothing but push to get it off that street. You keep your choice, you get better service, and you save over a million in taxes. Once you understand this Carmen, you will see that the transfer station is the wisest investment we can make.

PS we don't need to bond it, we already saved the money!
Betty
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Postby Norman Phillips » Tue Feb 04, 2003 6:41 pm

betty wrote:Norm, Mark, The full cost were supplied to the bc MANY TIMES OVER! Each time you came back with more more more! The bos tried to comply but the simple truth is, you won't accept our numbers. That in a nutshell is the problem. You insist on using inflated numbers to make curbside cheaper when you know full well that the ts is over a million dollars cheaper!
Betty
Betty, if you read carefully my message to the BC that ended up with dollaring out four SW items in the Selectmen's budget, you would see that all we wanted was a funding mechanism that would inform the voters of the total appropriations for the choice that they make. Our only complaint on the numbers was whether they were sufficient for building a transfer station, and it was not until very recently that the BOS showed us what they would ELIMINATE from the Ad Hoc costs in order to build a station.

We also worried about the size of the budget, when the SW costs were included in it, and the possibility that voters might turn down the budget.
Any disposal funding mechanism that depended on funds in the budget, AS DID THE SELECTMEN, was subject to this disaster. As you know, this is a matter of considerable concern, and the BOS did an excellent job in reducing many small items.

I recommend that you go back and read my talk to the Budget Committee. A copy was emailed to each Selectman last Thursday morning. You will see that nowhere in there do I complain about costs EXCEPT THAT THE VOTERS ARE NOT BEING TOLD. Get that, Betty, THE BOS WAS NOT GOING TO TELL THE VOTERS.
Sincerely, Norm Phillips
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Postby Chuck Mower » Tue Feb 04, 2003 7:45 pm

betty,

Truth is not something you simply assert. It is the outcome of illumination and education surrounding the circumstances of an issue. In order to have even an opinion an individual must have taken evidence, analyzed synthesized, evaluated and concluded some logical outcome of that process. An assertion is not an opinion it is just a wish on the part of the individual that they will prevail in their predjudice. As such, education is important because it not only allows people to make better choices, but in some ways forces them to make better choices. A person that has any justice in their soul is going to find it difficult to choose something other than the truth once they are confronted by it. You and the rest of the selectmen have been confronted.
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Postby Norman Phillips » Wed Feb 05, 2003 1:40 pm

Carmen, I expect to have the costs of two options for the average Crossroads household calculated very soon. I will first show them to you privately, and if you agree with the house assessments that I have taken from the Assessing Department files, I will post the calculation on this forum page for all to see.

This may take a few days while I tend to other business.
Sincerely, Norm Phillips
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Postby Mark Cloutier » Wed Feb 05, 2003 3:16 pm

Betty wrote:
Norm, Mark, The full cost were supplied to the bc MANY TIMES OVER! Each time you came back with more more more! The bos tried to comply but the simple truth is, you won't accept our numbers. That in a nutshell is the problem. You insist on using inflated numbers to make curbside cheaper when you know full well that the ts is over a million dollars cheaper!
Betty


Note the word OUR numbers. With this personal reference one might begin to wonder if Betty is a member of the BOS.....
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Postby Norman Phillips » Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:12 pm

Mark, this is only the latest bit of evidence that "Betty" is indeed a Selectman. Previous ones were
  • I asked Betty if the Solid Waste Disposal Revenue Fund had been set up at a town meeting around 1988 or 1989. Betty promptly replied "Yes". The name Solid Waste Disposal Revenue fund was not in use at that time, so a newcomer would not know the connection. The Chairman of the BOS at that time presented that motion to the voters and the Chairman then is now one of our current BOS.
  • "Betty" began to mention a "trip". Timing of this trip coincided with a hospital visit by one of our current Selectmen, a visit that was amply referred to by Selectmen in some of their meetings.
  • Betty used the word "We" in a posting two days ago, in referring to the Selectmen as having originated the Mast Road project.
  • And now this reference.
  • "Betty" has evidenced too much animosity against the Budget Committee to be anyone but a Selectman.


In my mind there is absolutely no doubt who "Betty" is. And I doubt that by now there is any doubt in the rest of citizens who read this forum.

The postings by Betty seem to contain frequently a wish to be recognized, a wish that cannot be stifled.
Sincerely, Norm Phillips
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Postby joe179 » Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:12 pm

Norman,

I see it is believed that betty's true identity is known or highly suspected.

If this is fact, I am having problems grappling with this person's ability to make sound and rational decisions as a town official. :!:
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