How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

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How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby Andy Sylvia » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:58 pm

90 days to go...

One day I was talking to a voter and all of the sudden his cell phone rang and he asked me to excuse him for a second. I was happy to, but I have to admit I heard his side of the conversation which consisted mostly of one word answers ("Yes", "No", "Sure", etc.)

He apologized, I replied that it was ok, but asked him out of curiosity who it was.

It turns out the caller came from New Hampshire Vocational Rehabilitation. The voter lives a subistence life, he couldn't afford a car, he could barely afford his rent and utilities, and he had just gotten a job as a cook at a local diner, but wouldn't be able to accept it unless he got special shoes with certain inserts that would not slip on the kitchen floors and could support him since he had some kind of osteoporosis.

However, since he could barely afford the bare necessities of life, he couldn't afford these special shoes, so he went to voc rehab.

The voter wanted to work and be a productive member of society, but he wouldn't have been able to without that little boost, and was grateful for the assistance he had gotten.

After I left, I thought hypothethically as to what the financial costs and benefits were to what must have been a $60 or $70 pair of shoes in this man's case.

The government probably got back their investment in one or two lunch rushes from meals tax. The owner of the diner might have gotten someone else to fill the job, but maybe they wouldn't be able to and would have either had to raise their wages to attract a new employee or turn to undocumented immigrant labor. And perhaps without that job, that voter may not have found another job and lost his apartment, and the landlord wouldn't have been able to pay the property taxes on the property and it would fall into disrepair, lowering the property values throughout the neighborhood degrading the tax base to the point where it would no longer be able to sustain the services expected by its residents.

Then again, everything might have turned out just fine. The thing is though, why leave that to chance in cases like these when the solution was as simple as a pair of shoes?
Last edited by Andy Sylvia on Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby platypusman » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:16 pm

Andy I think the shoes would offer a positive ROI in this case but the question remains, why is this man in this financial position in the first place? His malady would not preclude him from a non-physical profession if he had the qualifications and or education. Not asking the difficult questions is a common problem I see from those on the left. They treat symptoms to feel good and not address the source of the problem.

To solve this problem of people having to struggle so much I have to question why our public school system is sending so many like this man through their system who unable to derive a decent living? I would hope you would be for full school choice so that we can improve the lot of those like the man you wrote about. Are you supporting school choice such that a parent can use government funds to send their children to the school of their choice?
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby andysinnh » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:45 pm

It's interesting to see that Platy always tries to use the educational system as an excuse for every person and situation that, in his view, shows a lack of drive or lack of skill. Considering you know nothing more than what Andy has stated here, it really makes me shake my head to think that you are so single-threaded that you have to continually pound a system, regardless of the proof you may have. I highly recommend that instead of sitting on your soapbox and preaching against the educational system, that you try to do something about it. But maybe you have and not been successful? I don't know. But your continual assault in this direction tells me why you continue to be an anon....
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby platypusman » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:53 pm

andysinnh wrote:It's interesting to see that Platy always tries to use the educational system as an excuse for every person and situation that, in his view, shows a lack of drive or lack of skill. Considering you know nothing more than what Andy has stated here, it really makes me shake my head to think that you are so single-threaded that you have to continually pound a system, regardless of the proof you may have. I highly recommend that instead of sitting on your soapbox and preaching against the educational system, that you try to do something about it. But maybe you have and not been successful? I don't know. But your continual assault in this direction tells me why you continue to be an anon....


Andy, do you really want me to post the statistics as to how our public schools are performing today? If so, I can do it and it will prove we are not doing well. By posting my position on choice I feel I am trying to help.

Just because you don't agree with me does not mean my position is wrong or somehow evil. From the depth of my heart, I believe that school choice would drive competition and make all of our schools better. Finally, please give the anon thing a break. The forum supports any moniker you care to use when registering. I chose this one you chose the one you have. This has nothing what so ever to do with this post.
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby andysinnh » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:22 pm

Platy - I'll give the anon thing a break because you're right - it won't change - even though deep inside I still respect a conversation more when I can put a face to a name - but that's just me.

I know where you stand on education - it's been clearly stated. But equating this gentleman's position because of the education he got? How do you know? How do you know he doesn't have a mental illness that's causing an otherwise bright and educated person from making a living and existing in society? You're jumping to a conslusion to make a point, and I think that's the heart of my issue with your statement. Yes, the education system can improve - but the root of all the evils? I won't stretch it to that level.

I'm backing away because, alas, my emotions start getting hold of me as I do these discussions, and I've certainly got more important things to do. I admire your ability to stick to your beliefs no matter what - but as a final thought - do you every see anyone elses point of view, and consider that it might - just MIGHT - have value that you would entertain? That, my friend, would be a refeshing change. I'm certainly not one to say I don't change my mind - I can be swayed with information I find compelling. As an anon, you certainly can hold your views till the end of time - an online personna is a wonderful thing. But as a person who exists with a face and a name outside of an online community, one must be able to exist in the real world, where not all is black and white.

And, here, I sign off from the political threads.

And to the other Andy - best of luck as you march towards the elections. Hold your views, state your position, and evolve your thoughts as you see fit. Don't let anyone take that right away from you.

andy
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby Andy Sylvia » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:57 am

platypusman wrote:
Just because you don't agree with me does not mean my position is wrong or somehow evil. From the depth of my heart, I believe that school choice would drive competition and make all of our schools better. Finally, please give the anon thing a break. The forum supports any moniker you care to use when registering. I chose this one you chose the one you have. This has nothing what so ever to do with this post.


I don't think you or anyone else who disagrees with me is evil. Heck, sometimes I think there are some people who I agree with that do act in an "evil" way.

"Evil" and "Good" doesn't know party lines in my opinion.

I think school choice is a good idea as long as it's open to all and there's oversight and it's sustainable (if a regular business goes under, it's saddening but there isn't much impact in comparison to what would happen to the children that would be affected by suddenly not having a school.)

And with the anon thing, you can do whatever you like. However, you would have far more credibility in my opinion if you used your real name, just as you would in a real world conversation. I'm not hostile towards you being here, nor could I afford to be either due to my candidacy, but I have to defend myself and my views. With the way you talked and joined the forum, I was running under the assumption that you just a Republican operative similiar to Tammy Simmons at Blue Hampshire, especially from your IP address and the extenuating cirumstances.

However, I know this may sound strange from a politician, but I have no problem admitting I am wrong. I would be happy if you proved my initial assumption of you incorrect to be perfectly honest.
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby platypusman » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:01 am

I think school choice is a good idea as long as it's open to all and there's oversight and it's sustainable (if a regular business goes under, it's saddening but there isn't much impact in comparison to what would happen to the children that would be affected by suddenly not having a school.)


Andy this is good to know about you. Of course, there would need to be many controls and safeguards built into 'school choice' but the end, free markets will help all children.
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby Andy Sylvia » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:12 am

platypusman wrote:Of course, there would need to be many controls and safeguards built into 'school choice' but the end, free markets will help all children.


We can discuss the safeguards, that's why this site exists in my opinion, I look forward to it, as well as listening to people who might disagree with you too as long as they're respectful.

In the end, school vouchers may not be feasible, I don't know. But i'll go on facts whether they support or oppose my initial opinion on any economic issue rather than dogma.

That's part of why I can only promise three things (hard work, honesty, listening/respecting those who do the same to me). I may be wrong with something I think and will have to grow.

To me, I think a person's beliefs in the end are more around how they act rather than what they act upon.
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby Andy Sylvia » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:17 am

andysinnh wrote:
I'm backing away because, alas, my emotions start getting hold of me as I do these discussions, and I've certainly got more important things to do.


Man, if I had a nickel for every time i've said that, brother...


andysinnh wrote:And to the other Andy - best of luck as you march towards the elections. Hold your views, state your position, and evolve your thoughts as you see fit. Don't let anyone take that right away from you.

andy


Thank you, my friend. Hopefully it'll be worth something that i'm the only candidate for anything that engages in this discussions here. Sometimes to be honest, and no offense to Nate, I see this site like cigarettes: I keep on saying i'll quit, I do for awhile, it's probably bad for my (political) health, but I keep on coming back.
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby Jeannine Stergios » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:58 am

The two andys

Why are you two so emotional over this? It's a great thing for the man and you should be happy for him.
platypus said our schools need help and that is a fact and certainly nothing to get teary eyed over.

I don't understand these emotions over these topics.
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby Andy Sylvia » Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:31 pm

Jeannine Stergios wrote: certainly nothing to get teary eyed over.


Lost you there, Jeannine. I don't understand what you're mentioning.
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby Jeannine Stergios » Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:24 pm

Andy Sylvia

This is what I was talking about

Andy Sylvia on Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:17 am

andysinnh wrote:

I'm backing away because, alas, my emotions start getting hold of me as I do these discussions, and I've certainly got more important things to do.

Andy Sylvia wrote:
Man, if I had a nickel for every time i've said that, brother...
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby andysinnh » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:08 pm

It makes no difference what one may say, what proof one may offer, what article one may quote - Ultra-conservative folks on this forum slap anyone down who doesn't agree with their point of view back into their subordinate seat (at least from their lofty perspective) as they ride their soapbox of "correctness" into the sunset.

The motto: Stick to your beliefs and belittle anyone else who disagrees. Some call it debate - most call it dictation. And while you'll get a few PM's from folks who support your cause, others will quietly shake their head and decide, like I have now, to just not put any effort into it - since it's like convincing HAL from 2001: A Space Oddessy to do something he doesn't want to do - "I Don't think so, Dave"

Look at it from an average american's perspective, Jeannine. If you're not an ultra-conservative or a goverment-reduction advocate on the political portions of this forum, you face a continuous onslaught of attack at any opposing point of view that you may offer up. A few stick in to banter - RD being an example - but after a while, most think that there's a lot of other more productive things to do than sit and research easily-attainable opposing points of view, and offer them up - only to be told you're ignorant or reading a tainted article, and that you're wrong. Not worth it, frankly.

Finally, in closing, you use the word "teary eyed" in response to me saying that my emotions were getting the better of me. If you think for one minute I'd be TEARY eyed by events on this forum, then you're certainly mistaken. Perhaps it's because that from the lofty soapbox, you believe that someone who backs down is defeated, and runs away with their tail between their legs. Don't flatter yourself. Most folks just either laugh at the absurd arguements on the forum, or have deep anger that, in the year 2008, the level of intolerance shown in many discussions, or that the persistent trait to dictate rather than debate, is shown time and time again.

There's a quote by Michael Douglas in The American President that I recall most every time I read these "dictations" here on this forum. It says
"You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating, at the top of his lungs, that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.

That, in a nutshell, is this forum in the Political section. I support your right to say what you like, and will listen to your point. But don't consider me "broken" if I choose not to respond to dictated edicts, because in the end, it's just not worth my breath...
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby Wayne » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:21 pm

Well said, Andy. I'm sure there are ton of readers here that agree completely.
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Re: How Shoes From Voc Rehab Changed A Man's Life

Postby Jeannine Stergios » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:35 pm

andysinnh

Quite a tirade from someone claiming that the conservatives are the ones doing the battering on this forum. I say both sides do their share. And I am not an ultra conservative (whatever that means). Which conservative has tried to get people banned? Checks their IP addresses and are annoyed by anons to the point of trying to change the rules.

As far as being called ignorant - the only person calling people ignorant is RD.
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