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Re: Obama flip-flops again

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:17 pm
by Jeannine Stergios
andysinnh

Jeannine - you missed the point. Once you start to expand drilling and trying to reach independence, where do you stop? Today you support drilling in other offshore locations. But what if they come up empty? Or there's some disaster that takes out a rig and pushes away from offshore anything? Would you support more on-shore activities? And in what locations? In many ways, it's a very slippery slope once you start to let some things happen - you set the precedent for future actions. Actually I didn't say you called me an eco-freak - but you do seem to categorize people who don't want to expand the current drilling locations beyond existing leases as having their heads in the sand, so to speak. Knee-jerk reactions like this are never good...


We have to reach independence otherwise we will ocntinue to be enmeshed in the Middle East. What if Iran decides to block the Straits of Hormuz tomorrow? What if Iran does nuke Israel and in turn gets nuked? Do you really want to subject America to being held hostage to these types of situations?

I support drilling here as long as it doesn't destroy the air and water quality. What if they come up empty? Then the oil companies will take the loss. Have you seen the oil rigs in peoples' yards in Oklahoma and Texas? I'm not aware that they are ruining anything. Would you prefer to simply leave it all in the ground?

Let's be realistic. We don't have enough alternative energy sources right now to do anything else so why not start drilling while we work on alternative sources and start building nuclear plants at the rate of 4 per year for the next 15 years? Even as hybrids become more and more in use we still need oil and the cars of today will not simply vanish in a puff of smoke. Who is going to pay to have those oil fired heating systems switched over to another type of heating?

Re: Obama flip-flops again

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:19 pm
by Wayne
So why are you tearing down Obama for being willing to work with both Democrats and Republicans on this? I can only assume you really are scared of him and will hate him no matter what he does.

Re: Obama flip-flops again

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:22 pm
by andysinnh
platypusman wrote:Andy I believe your position on this is naive at best. Please look into the cost and feasibility of alternative sources of energy. There are no ‘magic bullets’ that can replace oil. If anyone tells you there, they are silly. We need oil for the foreseeable future so why not drill here and reduce the dollars we export to the Arabs and Chavez

Ok, "Mr Right" - show me just where you draw the line, and show me that we're not going to have issues with these offshore drilling locations and that they're not going to have adverse impacts on other industries, like fishing. Oh, I know - I'm an eco-freak to even THINK there might be anything more important than oil.

Today, there was an article on WMUR.com http://www.wmur.com/politics/17072960/detail.html about Jeanne Shaeen's attorneys telling local radio stations to cease and desist in running advertisements that say Jeanne Shaeen is against drilling offshore. In that letter, there's a quote that says:

Shaheen supports drilling on the 68 million acres, both on and offshore, that oil companies currently lease but do not drill.


Yep - I know you right-wingers think this is incorrect, but there are a lot of us "wacko liberals" that feel this needs to be pursued before opening new areas. Platy, you always talk about Americans needing to stretch themselves and to take on the challenge to compete with the rest of the world's technology-saavy people. Well, to me, here's a great challenge right here. They could start tomorrow. But, alas, it's excuses and nay-sayers that won't even try, since they say "it's too expensive and they don't have enough trained professionals to do the job". I'm wondering if they're siphoning too much money and resources to rebuild (say) Iraq's oil infrastructure to handle our own area?

You may consider me naive - but I consider you to be taking the easy way out and not considering other options, or the ramifications of your actions.

Re: Obama flip-flops again

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:39 pm
by platypusman
Andy almost all sizeable land-based prospects have been already drilled in the US except in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. The only feasible areas left for normal drilling are in offshore areas. This is a fact. The oil companies at today's prices would be happy to have more supply to sell but they don't because they cannot drill offshore or in ANWR.

There are oil shale deposits in the Green River area of western Colorado and this oil shale can be heated to extreme temperatures of up to 700° F for conversion into low- to medium-grade oil however environmentalists have been blocking this.

The position the left has put American citizens in is untenable -- we need more oil!

Re: Obama flip-flops again

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:43 pm
by Jeannine Stergios
Shaheen

Shaheen supports drilling on the 68 million acres, both on and offshore, that oil companies currently lease but do not drill.


Talk about a bunch of BS double talk. LOL

Who is she to tell anyone to cease and desist? Another one full of themselves who was also a lousy governor.

Re: Obama flip-flops again

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:53 pm
by Jeannine Stergios
Wayne

So why are you tearing down Obama for being willing to work with both Democrats and Republicans on this? I can only assume you really are scared of him and will hate him no matter what he does.


Who said anything about scared of him or hating him? He has NEVER tried to work both sides of the aisle. However, McCain actually has.

Obama is wrong for America. He is the opposite of everything America stands for and here are some of the reasons why:

He wants to redistribute wealth and create a socialistic society.
He lacks experience in foreign policy and economics.
He has NEVER made a major decision that would impact millions
He has barely spent any time in the Senate or with the military but is so full of himself that he believes he is ready to be commander in chief
I would like to see who he would plan to place in cabinet positions. I can assure you they will be mostly people with socialist leanings
He has worked with the GOP on anything other than that Lugar bill
He has had a lackluster Senate career. He was sworn in a Senator on Jan 5, 2005 and declared his intention to seek the presidency on May 2, 2007. How much experience is that?

Re: Obama flip-flops again

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:54 pm
by platypusman
Here is nice article that speaks of Obama's continual flip-flopping.

New and improved

Jul 10th 2008
From The Economist print edition

THE reaction to Jesse Helms’s death on July 4th is a reminder of how bipolar American politics has become. The right praised him as a man of principle who also overflowed with the milk of human kindness. The left retorted—rightly, in our view—that he was also a bigot and a bully (see article). But at least conservatives and liberals have discovered one thing they can agree on: that Barack Obama is a cynical opportunist, a flip-flopper and a shape-changer, a man who brushes aside his principles with the same nonchalance that lesser mortals reserve for their dandruff.

Bob Herbert of the New York Times worries that Mr Obama is “not just tacking gently to the centre. He’s lurching right when it suits him, and he’s zigging with the kind of reckless abandon that’s guaranteed to cause disillusion, if not whiplash.” Some 22,000 people have protested on his website about his change of heart on wiretapping. A group called “Recreate68” promises to complain about his move to the centre at the Democratic convention in Denver in August.
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Still, there is no doubt that he has engaged in a bit of vigorous repositioning in the past few weeks.

The old Obama pledged to take public financing in the general election. The new one will spend what it takes. The old Obama pledged to filibuster a bill giving legal immunity to telecoms companies that co-operated with the government on terrorist surveillance. The new one supports the bill. The old Obama failed to wear a flag pin. The new Obama talks about patriotism in a sea of American flags, praises General David Petraeus, the chief commander in Iraq, raises doubts about partial-birth abortion, agrees with the Supreme Court on gun rights, supports the death penalty for child-rapists and embraces faith-based social work.


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Mr Obama’s flip-flop on public finance is certainly cynical (and his willingness to justify it as an act of high principle even more so). But polls suggest that Americans are happy with a certain amount of flip-flopping: Mr Bush has all but destroyed the market in stubborn consistency. And Mr Obama’s hard-edged cynicism also helps to quell one of the biggest doubts about his candidacy—that he is too naive and soft-minded to hold the most powerful job in the world.

Mr Obama is capitalising not only on his huge fund-raising advantage over Mr McCain but also on his rival’s problems with his base. He is occupying the middle ground in order to reassure white voters that he shares their values. This is no airy-fairy liberal who is going to allow himself to be pushed around by Middle Eastern despots. This is a shrewd opportunist at work.

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Re: Obama flip-flops again

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:21 am
by Ken Coleman
Platpusman Posted

Andy almost all sizeable land-based prospects have been already drilled in the US except in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. The only feasible areas left for normal drilling are in offshore areas.


This is completely wrong. What it would be accurate to say is that all the light sweet crude that is easy to get at that drilling is permitted (huge areas of the west in parks and Indian Reserves are off limits) had been tapped.
There was a major feature in Time a few weeks ago that highlighted this. We have a huge amount of oil in the lower 48, but
Much of the untapped is not light sweet crude and the heaver, darker oils require much more processing.
Much of the remaining untapped higher grade oils require much more costly extraction processes.
As Oil is no long 10 dollars a barrel, but over 100, many efforts are now being made in regards to these two, but just like offshore it will take years to reach the market place.
The other area is the parks and reservations that have a huge amount of oil that is higher grade and easy to get at. But these have not been to on the table to talk about.
The additional offshore leases have been made into a sound bite political issue. They are not part of a comprehensive plan to address the short term energy needs of the US. In addition all of these are just stop gaps even if tapped; we will still need to import too much oil if we do not bring on line alternatives.

Ken Coleman