Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

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Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

1> Yes
11
50%
2> No
10
45%
3> Hell no it's not fair!
1
5%
 
Total votes : 22

Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby RD » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:07 pm

platypusman wrote:we could be in for huge tax increases if he is elected.

McCain said Sunday that he would keep payroll tax increases on the table.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby platypusman » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:02 am

The big issue here is that Obama's nunbers don't add up. What are his specific plans for SS?
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby Sybil Spence Rocca » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:45 pm

Jeannine Stergios wrote:platypus

If the ceiling is raised on Social Security payments the employer will also have to continue paying to match the employee's tax. This will affect a company's bottom line. Between this new proposal, asking employers to kick in 10% for health insurance and raising the minimum wage every year well we will see the unemployment rate jump to a dangerous level. It's obvious to me that Obama has no clue how business works.


Poor employer :( Whatever will the poor employer do? Guess there will be many choices that the poor employer will have to make.

I think Obama has a very clear understanding how business works in this country.

How are your employees doing these days Jeannine? I know that you told me quite awhile back that you didn't provide insurance for them because the premiums were too expensive for you. I know that works if you have employees who are on their spouse's health insurance.

Kicking in a little more for SS benefits shouldn't hurt too too much.

I know you mentioned on another thread that you use house cleaning services. Perhaps this would be an area you could cut back on. Your husband and kids could help you out with the cleaning. Just a thought....

Platy - you don't have to worry - You're sittin' pretty with your government job.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby platypusman » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:58 pm

It is so interesting for me to see how some folks feel they are entitled to the fruits of others' labor. This is what turns me off about Obama, who gives him the right to take from hard working people and give it to others? Not right in my book!
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby Sybil Spence Rocca » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:44 pm

platypusman wrote:It is so interesting for me to see how some folks feel they are entitled to the fruits of others' labor. This is what turns me off about Obama, who gives him the right to take from hard working people and give it to others? Not right in my book!



You don't think this all the way through Platy! It's a give and take situation here - Employees work for the employer. Without the laborious efforts of the employee, the employer wouldn't prosper very well. An employer needs skilled, qualified people working for him/her - These employees give their skills to an employer and expect to be treated fairly and decently while doing so. An employer should not be allowed to use and exploit an employee - reaping the benefits of their hard work which has made him/her sucessful.

We aren't living in Dicken's World!
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby RBarnes » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:30 pm

Sybil Spence Rocca wrote:
Jeannine Stergios wrote:platypus

If the ceiling is raised on Social Security payments the employer will also have to continue paying to match the employee's tax. This will affect a company's bottom line. Between this new proposal, asking employers to kick in 10% for health insurance and raising the minimum wage every year well we will see the unemployment rate jump to a dangerous level. It's obvious to me that Obama has no clue how business works.


Poor employer :( Whatever will the poor employer do? Guess there will be many choices that the poor employer will have to make.

I think Obama has a very clear understanding how business works in this country.

How are your employees doing these days Jeannine? I know that you told me quite awhile back that you didn't provide insurance for them because the premiums were too expensive for you. I know that works if you have employees who are on their spouse's health insurance.

Kicking in a little more for SS benefits shouldn't hurt too too much.

I know you mentioned on another thread that you use house cleaning services. Perhaps this would be an area you could cut back on. Your husband and kids could help you out with the cleaning. Just a thought....

Platy - you don't have to worry - You're sittin' pretty with your government job.


Sybil, don't you see the problem you describe here perfectly? The additional taxes and fees forced by the government force Jeannine as a business owner to either pay out more or cut back on the employees she hires. And if she pays out more she's forced to take that away from her own pocketbook.

And as you point out here, her taking away from her own pocketbook directly translates to her not hiring a housekeeper. Translate that out to 10 or 20 other business owners and that housekeeper is now unemployed without any health insurance.

Force is perpetuating the problem.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby Jeannine Stergios » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:46 pm

RBarnes

Thanks for bringing that up. The fact that I am using MY OWN MONEY to pay for a housekeeper is my own business. Who has the right to tell me I should cut back because Obama wants to tax my business so I have to lay off employees?

Sybil
FYI - All of my employees are covered on their Spouses' health plans but I still pay for their dental, disability, life insurance and even match 3% for their 401K in adition to vacation pay and bonuses. If health insurance was needed I would certainly offer it.

It's obvious that you have never operated a business to think the way you do. Tell me what qualifications does Obama have that make him an expert on business? Does he have an MBA? Owned a business? He has a law degree and as far as I know NEVER operated his own law firm. So where does his business expertise come from?
REPUBLICAN - BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE CAN BE ON WELFARE
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby Sybil Spence Rocca » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:54 pm

Jeannine Stergios wrote:RBarnes

Thanks for bringing that up. The fact that I am using MY OWN MONEY to pay for a housekeeper is my own business. Who has the right to tell me I should cut back because Obama wants to tax my business so I have to lay off employees?

Sybil
FYI - All of my employees are covered on their Spouses' health plans but I still pay for their dental, disability, life insurance and even match 3% for their 401K in adition to vacation pay and bonuses. If health insurance was needed I would certainly offer it.

It's obvious that you have never operated a business to think the way you do. Tell me what qualifications does Obama have that make him an expert on business? Does he have an MBA? Owned a business? He has a law degree and as far as I know NEVER operated his own law firm. So where does his business expertise come from?

Jeaninne,


I REALLY don't think you want to go any further with this discussion about "your business" - DO YOU?
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby platypusman » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:56 pm

This silly proposal will also have very detrimental impacts on US facilities within multinational corporations. In this case, Obama’s tax increase will increase the cost of hiring and maintaining US-based workers. When possible, work will be partitioned out to lower cost geographies to compensate for the higher burden cost of US employees. This like many other of Obama’s proposals will be job killers!
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby platypusman » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:06 pm

Sybil Spence Rocca wrote:
platypusman wrote:It is so interesting for me to see how some folks feel they are entitled to the fruits of others' labor. This is what turns me off about Obama, who gives him the right to take from hard working people and give it to others? Not right in my book!



You don't think this all the way through Platy! It's a give and take situation here - Employees work for the employer. Without the laborious efforts of the employee, the employer wouldn't prosper very well. An employer needs skilled, qualified people working for him/her - These employees give their skills to an employer and expect to be treated fairly and decently while doing so. An employer should not be allowed to use and exploit an employee - reaping the benefits of their hard work which has made him/her sucessful.

We aren't living in Dicken's World!


I am sorry but what does your response have to do with some folks wanting to leach off of the success of others? To address your point anyway, if workers don't like the remuneration they receive for services delivered then go elsewhere. If workers are in a field where market forces drive low levels of compensation then go into a new occupation. Do not expect others to pay higher taxes to support other personal choices.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby Sybil Spence Rocca » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:10 pm

So, what are you saying here Platy? Are you saying that all employees are leaches? Are you leaching off the government?
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby platypusman » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:18 pm

You misunderstand the issue.

1> Increasing the amount of income SS taxes applies to will increase costs for businesses. This is bad in a global economy as it enables non-US competitors to have a lower cost structure

2> It is wrong for some folks to pay less while others pay more in terms of taxes. The progressive income tax structure is wrong and impedes economic growth. Taxing consumption would be a better and fairer way to fund our government.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby RBarnes » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:46 pm

Sybil and Platy, look at the IT field as a perfect example...

In the 90s the demand for IT boomed because companies all wanted to get on the web and wanted to automate their processes and there weren't enough people graduating with technical degrees to fill the demand. The result was people right out of college were able to name their prices.
Demand continued to rise and schools such as the one I went to graduating 3 or 4 computer engineers a year weren't cutting it so companies called on government to "solve" the problem.
Clinton obliged by bringing in tons of H1-B visa workers who came from 3rd world counties willing to work for half or even less what IT workers were earning. They in turn sent much of their salaries back to their own countries taking it out of the US economy.
As demand grew less IT workers became in less demand driving down salaries and leaving many without work at all.
Then in the late 90s when many of the dot coms which never were able to earn money started to close shop even more IT workers found themselves out of work Meanwhile the H1-B visa workers started returning home.
In India they were able to set up shops for much cheaper then in the US and companies in turn hired them over there to do the same work creating even bigger problems for the US IT workers.

This same cycle can be found over and over and over again in US history. Salaries driven up by the Unions create conditions in the US were it is cheaper to manufacture products over seas now leaving many out of work. Again and again we drive up the price to "fix" a problem and we find ourselves continually driving away jobs.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby platypusman » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

You are correct; the government facilitated the move of IT and other industries to operate offshore. It was an issue of costs, after the H1Bs were fully trained and moved home, they could offer the same services as companies in the US at less cost hence the growth of Infosys and the outsourcing of jobs by the likes of Microsoft, HP, IBM, Merck, Pfizer, Freescale, American Express etc. Given the ability of companies to locate high paying jobs literally anywhere cost is a paramount issue. Obama with all of his proposals for costly programs and new tax increases will drive the cost of doing business in the US even higher.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby Wayne » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:29 pm

RBarnes wrote:This same cycle can be found over and over and over again in US history. Salaries driven up by the Unions create conditions in the US were it is cheaper to manufacture products over seas now leaving many out of work. Again and again we drive up the price to "fix" a problem and we find ourselves continually driving away jobs.

I don't think I understand - are you saying that if salaries were kept real low that none of the globalization would have happened and we'd all be better off? I have to disagree, in that we were definitely not going to be able to manufacture products as cheaply as offshore. As for high tech, I think the internet let the genie out of the bottle. With people suddenly able to supply technical labor from anywhere in the world, the U.S. lost its huge advantage and became just one of the herd. We still have the opportunity to provide superior innovative work, but that's not gonna happen without an effort.

If there are good things to come out of the rise in energy prices, one of them is that transportation costs for goods have risen as well, and local suppliers of goods have become much more attractive.
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