Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

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Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

1> Yes
11
50%
2> No
10
45%
3> Hell no it's not fair!
1
5%
 
Total votes : 22

Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby platypusman » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:30 pm

Here is Obama's Plan for saving Social Security.

Do you support it?

From Obama's web site

Obama believes that the first place to look for ways to strengthen Social Security is the payroll tax system. Currently, the Social Security payroll tax applies to only the first $102,000 a worker makes. Obama supports increasing the maximum amount of earnings covered by Social Security
Last edited by platypusman on Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby platypusman » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:47 pm

So let's say one has a well paying job throughout their working life. These higher lifetime earnings generally result in higher benefits but there is a maximum benefit limit. In 2007, for an individual that begins receiving benefits at full retirement age, the maximum monthly Social Security benefit is $2,116.

Obama never provides details in his proposals so if the earnings limits are raised will the monthly maximum payout follow suit? It would be a great disservice if all workers are not treated fairly.

Does anyone know this? Listening to Obama is so frustrating because he never communicates details, just lofty platitudes.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby rowland » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:52 pm

Oh, Social Security! I thought you meant Schutzstaffel. What with him in Berlin and the creepy rallies and posters and all.

So glad it's just some vast involuntary Ponzi scheme he wants to keep going on account of he's such a visionary.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby platypusman » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:20 am

Folks those of you who have voted yes, please help me understand why you voted the way you did?

My feeling is a person's income (reciprocal = SS tax liability up to $102K) is a choice based on personal decisions. We control our income levels. Next, I believe it is wrong for anyone healthy to seek to pay less in taxes at the expense of someone else.

DO people feel different and if so, please help me understand your personal thoughts on this matter.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby Jeannine Stergios » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:57 am

platypus

If the ceiling is raised on Social Security payments the employer will also have to continue paying to match the employee's tax. This will affect a company's bottom line. Between this new proposal, asking employers to kick in 10% for health insurance and raising the minimum wage every year well we will see the unemployment rate jump to a dangerous level. It's obvious to me that Obama has no clue how business works.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby platypusman » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:52 am

Jeannine Stergios wrote:platypus

If the ceiling is raised on Social Security payments the employer will also have to continue paying to match the employee's tax. This will affect a company's bottom line. Between this new proposal, asking employers to kick in 10% for health insurance and raising the minimum wage every year well we will see the unemployment rate jump to a dangerous level. It's obvious to me that Obama has no clue how business works.



You're so correct! Placing this burden on businesses makes no sense if one wants to drive econmic expansion. Simple fact, more cost equals less resources for expansion!

What is really sad is we have lost the traditional America value of hard work. The folks who want others to pay more taxes must have a sense of entitlement. It appears for some reason they resent others' good forture and feel that the fruits of others' hard work should benefit them. I don't understand this sense of entitlement and it is growing which will end up hurting our country!
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby RD » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:19 pm

Jeannine, Rowland, platypus, the poll suggests you're in the minority here. Perhaps you should just concede that the majority support Obama's plan. Do you believe in democracy?
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby Jeannine Stergios » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:34 pm

RD

We are not in the minority anywhere but in your brain. Many people read here but do not post. I suspect many who voted with you are also clueless about how business is conducted in this country.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby RD » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:42 pm

Jeannine Stergios wrote:I suspect many who voted with you are also clueless about how business is conducted in this country.

I suspect you're right. And they're in the majority. They're regular Americans, many of whom live paycheck to paycheck. Regular Americans will vote for Obama for many reasons, one of which is his plan to strengthen Social Security.

You're in the minority. Let it go, this is a democracy.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby Jeannine Stergios » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:48 pm

RD
That is NOT strengthening Social Security. It is taking more money from successful people and handing it to people who haven't even paid into the system.
When I see a 70 and 90 year old come here from another country and are collecting SSI within a matter of weeks, I see who the extra money is going to and it's wrong. Your citizen of the world mindset is simply a ploy invented by some fool who wants to make himself feel good. We have nthing to gain from being citizens of the world; however many in other parts of the world have plenty to gain from us.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby RD » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:53 pm

Jeannine Stergios wrote:RD
That is NOT strengthening Social Security.

The majority disagrees with you. Sorry. This is a democracy.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby Jeannine Stergios » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:01 pm

RD

The majority disagrees with you. Sorry. This is a democracy.


The forum is a democracy? You get 6 people to agree with you and 5 who don't so now we are supposed to simply allow you to pretend the world agrees with you. Since when do you care about democracy? Your idea of heaven here on earth is socialism.
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby RD » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:30 am

This morning on This Week, McCain was asked if payroll tax increases were on the table when dealing with SS. McCain responded that "everything is on the table."
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby platypusman » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:30 am

I wonder why supporters of higher payroll taxes have been unable to reply and make a case as to why some experience government largess at the expense of others?
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Re: Poll Do you Support Obama's SS Plan

Postby platypusman » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:04 pm

It is becoming more apparent Obama's plans have no substance. This is why he is so dangerous, we could be in for huge tax increases if he is elected. I would rather he play it straight and tell us the details of what he wants to do.

----
Details missing from Obama's Social Security plan
Jul 28, 4:16 AM (ET)

By CHARLES BABINGTON

WASHINGTON (AP) - Barack Obama's bid to place a new Social Security tax on very high incomes is either a bold or foolhardy plan, depending on who critiques it.

But its potential impact is almost impossible to gauge because he is providing few details on basic questions such as what the tax rate might be, what types of income would be taxed and how the taxpayers' benefits would be affected.

The Democratic presidential candidate says he would work with lawmakers from both parties to resolve such matters. Voters generally applaud bipartisan cooperation, but they apparently will go to the polls this fall with only a vague notion of what Obama has in mind.

Obama made headlines June 13 when he called for a Social Security payroll tax on incomes above $250,000 a year. Currently, the tax is levied only on the first $102,000 of each worker's income. That covers the entire salary of most Americans.

Obama would not apply the Social Security tax to annual incomes between $102,000 and $250,000, a move meant to avoid alienating several million upper-income voters. His proposed change would apply only to those earning more than $250,000 a year, or about 3 percent of all taxpayers.

When he outlined his idea in the battleground state of Ohio, Obama said it is unfair for middle-class earners to pay the Social Security tax "on every dime they make," while millionaires and billionaires pay it on "only a very small percentage of their income." He also said the Social Security program needs revamping to bolster its long-term viability.

With Obama offering few details, several news accounts suggested that his proposed tax on very high incomes would be applied just as the existing Social Security tax is levied on incomes up to $102,000.

All workers pay a 6.2 percent Social Security payroll tax on such income. Their employers match it, for a total tax of 12.4 percent. The tax applies only to earned income, not to passive income such as dividends and interest.

In recent weeks, Obama aides have quietly indicated that the proposed tax on incomes above $250,000 might be different in key aspects. The rate probably would be about 2 percent to 4 percent, not 6.2 percent, they said. It's also possible that it would apply to more types of income, including dividends and investments.

As for benefits, the campaign has not said how the proposed tax on very high incomes would translate into new retirement income, if any, for those who pay it.

The campaign "has not put forth a specific plan" for Social Security, Obama economic adviser Austan Goolsbee said in an interview.

Perhaps because so many details are missing, Obama's Social Security proposal has generated relatively little debate on the campaign trail. But any change to the massive program could have far-reaching effects.

Many Americans rely on Social Security for much or all of their retirement income. Some workers, meanwhile, do not realize how much is withheld from each paycheck for Social Security and, to a lesser degree, Medicare.

Nearly three-fourths of all workers pay more in these payroll taxes than in federal income taxes, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. The center assumes that workers pay the full 12.4 percent in Social Security taxes, contending that employers would devote their half of the total to salaries if they did not have to make the 50-50 match.

Given the dearth of details about Obama's plans, some Republicans have criticized it, using assumptions that Democrats reject. Lawrence B. Lindsey, a former economic adviser to President Bush, argues that high earners would pay the full 12.4 percent tax rate on income above $250,000 while receiving no added benefits.

"A high-income entrepreneur would see his or her federal marginal tax rate rise to 53 percent from 37.7 percent," Lindsey wrote in a June 20 Wall Street Journal op-ed column.

The marginal tax rate is what a person pays on each additional dollar earned. Lindsey wrote that Obama's plans would provide a powerful incentive for the highest-earning Americans to work less, invest less and contribute less to the economy.

Former Oklahoma Sen. Don Nickles, a Republican, agreed. A person who owns two restaurants and makes $500,000 a year would have little incentive to open a third restaurant under Obama's tax plans, and might even close one, Nickles said in an interview. "He's not going to be hiring more people," Nickles said.

Obama economic adviser Jason Furman, responding to Lindsey in a letter published by The Wall Street Journal, said Obama would "work with Congress on a bipartisan basis to design the details" of his Social Security plan, "including the tax rate, how it is phased in over time, the linkage between these tax payments and benefits, and other critical design elements of this plan."

Furman wrote that Obama "has not proposed a 12.4-percentage point tax increase on earnings above $250,000."
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