On the surge

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On the surge

Postby guesswho » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:46 am

Biden: "If he surges another 20, 30 [thousand], or whatever number he's going to, into Baghdad, it'll be a tragic mistake."

Hillary, on the night the surge was announced, said, "Based on the president's speech tonight, I cannot support his proposed escalation of the war in Iraq."

Kucinich: "It has been proven time and time again that troop surges don't work."

Reid declared the Iraq war "lost" and said "This surge is not accomplishing anything."

Dodd: "To insist upon a surge is wrong."

Obama: "It is clear at this point that we cannot, through putting in more troops or maintaining the presence that we have, expect that somehow the situation is going to improve, and we have to do something significant to break the pattern that we've been in right now."

Obama : "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq are going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse."

Kerry: "it's a tragic mistake. It won't end the violence; it won't provide security;  .  .  .  it won't turn back the clock and avoid the civil war that is already underway; it won't deter terrorists, who have a completely different agenda; it won't rein in the militias."
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Re: On the surge

Postby RD » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:26 pm

guesswho wrote:Obama: "It is clear at this point that we cannot, through putting in more troops or maintaining the presence that we have, expect that somehow the situation is going to improve, and we have to do something significant to break the pattern that we've been in right now."

Obama : "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq are going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse."

Obama's right, I agree. Tha American people want us out, and the Iraqis want us out.
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Re: On the surge

Postby guesswho » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:59 pm

So your saying that you agree with Obama that the additional troops would increase the sectarian violence?

Are you not aware of the incredible drop in violence?
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Re: On the surge

Postby guesswho » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:31 pm

So your saying that you agree with Obama that the additional troops would increase the sectarian violence?

Are you not aware of the incredible drop in violence?
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Re: On the surge

Postby fog » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:03 am

guesswho wrote:So your saying that you agree with Obama that the additional troops would increase the sectarian violence?

Are you not aware of the incredible drop in violence?


You have this incredible tendency to make it sound as if things can only be seen your way. RD said that the majority of Americans, and the Iraqi government, want us out. He didn't say anything about the surge.

It's great the surge "worked," but I wouldn't hang up your Mission Accomplished sign yet -- we're still in Iraq, and we're still fighting. And it doesn't change the fact that we're still in a war we shouldn't be in.
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Re: On the surge

Postby guesswho » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:35 am

Hmmm, the topic was the surge and specifically how Obama and the left - but more so obama - was so wrong on the surge.
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Re: On the surge

Postby RD » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:39 am

So if the surge has worked, and "benchmarks" have been met, why are we still occupying Iraq?
"If you think teachers are your enemy, you should probably reassess who you think your friends are." - Chris Larson
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Re: On the surge

Postby guesswho » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:47 am

I'm certain that you can read up on it, but there's a bit more work to do...

And the Iraqis actually want us to stay.
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Re: On the surge

Postby fog » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:28 pm

guesswho wrote:And the Iraqis actually want us to stay.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/28/world ... ei=5087%0A

Really now? While I do believe the incident in that article was truly an accident, what about this:
It also bolstered calls from Iraqi politicians to pressure the American military to leave Iraq after this year, when a United Nations mandate expires, unless the United States agrees to permit its soldiers to be subject to criminal prosecution under Iraqi law for attacks on civilians.


It seems that at least some in the Iraqi government want us out.
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Re: On the surge

Postby TCF » Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:18 am

August 8, 2008 - 10:57 ET
The issue:

The Surge in Iraq

What the liberal whiners say:

1. 'It didn't work'
2. 'OK, it worked because of the amazing work of the men and women in the U.S. military'
3. 'Actually, the Surge worked better than anyone could've imagined, even President Bush and Dick Cheney has no idea it would work like this'
4. Well, come to think of it, while the Surge may or may not have worked, it really wasn't the Surge that helped anyway. It was the Sunni tribes that stop the violence in Iraq'



1. Really? Violence against U.S. troops is down 80%...the number of U.S. combat deaths in July (5), was the lowest since the invasion. Violence against Iraqi civilians is also down about 70%. We've turned over more and more provinces to Iraqi control...their infrastructure is being rebuilt and their economy is on the rise. Iraq's oil production is up to around 2.5 million barrels per day and they just posted a budget SURPLUS of $70 billion. In fact, the Surge has worked so well, it now seems that it may be possible to start withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq.

2. Exactly. And, I know know you don't want to give ANY credit to the hated, evil, BUSH, but someone deployed those troops against a ton of opposition...or did they deploy themselves?

3. OK, so now you're saying that Bush and Cheney deployed the troops against all the opposition they faced to do it, in the belief that the Surge would FAIL? I'm sorry, that seems like a really stupid argument, even for YOU and Barack Obama.

4. Oh, so now you're taking back your praise of the men and women in the American military? The Sunni tribes were able to take back their neighborhoods because of the incredible accomplishments of our troops. By the way, Barack Obama said at the beginning of the Surge that, not only would 20-30,000 more troops NOT help, it would actually make the situation WORSE. The only thing consistent about Obama and other liberals on the Surge has been their wrong-ness.
Liberalism is a mental disorder.
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Re: On the surge

Postby platypusman » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:15 am

I think those who opposed the surge such as Obama need to tell us:

- Were they wrong before in not supporting the surge

- Is the surge still bad military strategy
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