Specifics Please Dennis

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Specifics Please Dennis

Postby Brian McCarthy » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:39 pm

To keep this on topic...

Dennis,

Please be specific with your objective views of my performance as a Town Councilor.

We should be able to stay on topic here.
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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby Dennis King » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:57 pm

Ok, you asked for it Brian, Here are my concerns:

You voted to have TC members received a $300.00/month "stipend". In my book, if you are asking for the voters to fork over the money, you should put it on a warrant and ask them. In my view it is cowardly to say, well it is not for me but the next councilor, let the people decide. You had the perfect chance when you were approving other warrants, would have been a cinch to make the motion for a warrant instead of by fiat because "You say so" You are an intelligent person, can't you see how this is a much better way to do it?

Same applies for PAYT, you know what the people feel and that makes your actions even worse. So what if the people vote for convenience and slightly higher taxes over mandated bags, after all, isn't this a free country?
Think of it this way, but simply putting Tim's warrant forward as written and then making your recommendation and education efforts, then if the voters still wanted the TC as is, you are off the hook, taxes go up a few more cents per thousand but it is the people's choice. You can educate and recommend, once you MANDATE, you stop being a citizen legislature in my view.

Town ordinances, the whole town voted for a ban on alcohol in town parks. You were incorrect when you stated the taxpayers voted to allow for exceptions,. no, it was the TC (Tim was on the board at that time) and they chose to allow exceptions based on THEIR WILL not the public, again this would have been so easy to put on a warrant, once you establish the precedent, you will have to allow all other groups hence making the ordinance moot. When you and the rest of the TC decided to make an exception for Tim, you were under the impression that the town gave you the power to make that exception but now, it was Tim Tenhave and the other TC members who voted for that change. Wonder if you knew the will of the people was changes if you would have voted differently.
So many things are changed by the TC, hard to keep up but with every independent change, we move further and further away from the will of the people.

You instituted PAYT knowing full well the people are against it. Very wrong in my book. No one elected you to be our overlords. Finlay was right, you need to educate the people and give them a choice. Mandating because you know what is best for us has been used so often in our society that now we have toilets that do not flush, showers, dishwashers, and washing machines that do not clean, light bulbs that need an EPA HAZ Mat team, and meters in the home that decide how much heat and ac you "deserve"

I am running late so I will have leave you with that. A good friend of mine just lost his brother, a composer of such beautiful music.
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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby Brian McCarthy » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:20 am

You disagree with my votes. None of what you posted shows that I was two-faced, or untruthful.

Everyone has an opinion. I do not agree with yours. Please don't take that as an attack.

You forgot your continued comments about a power trip that I am on. It seems to come up when you feel that a decision the Council puts forth goes against your beliefs. Again, your opinion because my definition of a power trip is when a Council Chair tells a local judge to 'take a seat'. I goes along with believing that one person has rights above someone else - which I don't, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the Council feels the same way. Again, that isn't an attack, I simply disagree with your statement.

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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby Brian McCarthy » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:22 am

Oh, and you failed to stay on topic.... I wouldn't want to start discussing your loss in this thread.

Dennis King wrote:Ok, you asked for it Brian, Here are my concerns:

You voted to have TC members received a $300.00/month "stipend". In my book, if you are asking for the voters to fork over the money, you should put it on a warrant and ask them. In my view it is cowardly to say, well it is not for me but the next councilor, let the people decide. You had the perfect chance when you were approving other warrants, would have been a cinch to make the motion for a warrant instead of by fiat because "You say so" You are an intelligent person, can't you see how this is a much better way to do it?

Same applies for PAYT, you know what the people feel and that makes your actions even worse. So what if the people vote for convenience and slightly higher taxes over mandated bags, after all, isn't this a free country?
Think of it this way, but simply putting Tim's warrant forward as written and then making your recommendation and education efforts, then if the voters still wanted the TC as is, you are off the hook, taxes go up a few more cents per thousand but it is the people's choice. You can educate and recommend, once you MANDATE, you stop being a citizen legislature in my view.

Town ordinances, the whole town voted for a ban on alcohol in town parks. You were incorrect when you stated the taxpayers voted to allow for exceptions,. no, it was the TC (Tim was on the board at that time) and they chose to allow exceptions based on THEIR WILL not the public, again this would have been so easy to put on a warrant, once you establish the precedent, you will have to allow all other groups hence making the ordinance moot. When you and the rest of the TC decided to make an exception for Tim, you were under the impression that the town gave you the power to make that exception but now, it was Tim Tenhave and the other TC members who voted for that change. Wonder if you knew the will of the people was changes if you would have voted differently.
So many things are changed by the TC, hard to keep up but with every independent change, we move further and further away from the will of the people.

You instituted PAYT knowing full well the people are against it. Very wrong in my book. No one elected you to be our overlords. Finlay was right, you need to educate the people and give them a choice. Mandating because you know what is best for us has been used so often in our society that now we have toilets that do not flush, showers, dishwashers, and washing machines that do not clean, light bulbs that need an EPA HAZ Mat team, and meters in the home that decide how much heat and ac you "deserve"

I am running late so I will have leave you with that. A good friend of mine just lost his brother, a composer of such beautiful music.
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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby Dennis King » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:22 am

Brian McCarthy wrote:You disagree with my votes. None of what you posted shows that I was two-faced, or untruthful.Brian


I have never said you or the TC were bad people, what I have challenged is the use of your power. I have been consistent on this. I am sure there are many votes you should make that do not require a town vote but on PAYT for example, that is clearly one that should have gone to the voters. The fact that members on the TC agreed the public would never go for it and Tim asked you to "lead", in essence ignore the will of the people, just enact it while at the same time making the instrument of democracy void just blew me away.

I expect the TC to have the judgement to know what issues should be brought to the people. Tim has now propelled you in a new direction. Now any warrant can simply be ignored, just add it to the budget, why mess with the process of asking the people. That is what I object to the most.

Brian McCarthy wrote: Everyone has an opinion. I do not agree with yours. Please don't take that as an attack. Brian


I do not Brian, I disagree with your ACTIONS. As for the new digs, I have said that at sometime in the future is would be OK but now in these hard times, it was the wrong thing to do. I also objected to the use of cable funds for town renovations.

Brian McCarthy wrote:You forgot your continued comments about a power trip that I am on. It seems to come up when you feel that a decision the Council puts forth goes against your beliefs. Again, your opinion because my definition of a power trip is when a Council Chair tells a local judge to 'take a seat'. I goes along with believing that one person has rights above someone else - which I don't, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the Council feels the same way. Again, that isn't an attack, I simply disagree with your statement. Brian


I am not sure what your analogy about the judge taking a seat means. As to the power trip, yes, you do have power and that is the key to my concern. The fundamental question is should it be absolute or restrained. Since our town was founded, we have always had warrant articles to ask the citizens what they wanted to do on an issue. This shows respect for the will of the people and at heart, it is what this country is all about.
I think it is a mistake to over ride the public, Finlay is right, you need to have the public behind you. After all, you are now moving back to being one of the public again. Now as a former TC member you will always enjoy the residual effects of power, just look at how TIm Tenhave was able to get you to ignore his warrant article in favor of "leading" It is in this "leadership" that I object the most. If the town decided they were willing to pay more for the convenience of NOT having the bags alone with the $95,000.00/yr "bag administration" and of course the "bag police", well that should be their right to choose. What you and the rest of the TC did was to take away our right to choose. You willfully decided 7 (actually 8 with Tim) voices were more important than the 28,000 that live in this town. As I have posted, on many issues, we (the town) would rather have you make decisions as you are our representatives but on major issues, money issues, and controversial issues, it is always better to put these decisions in the hands of the voters.

I fully realize how intoxicating power can be. It must have been such a great temptation when Tim used the warrant article process to ask the people if they wanted PAYT (even with his slanted language of saying you money, of course no mention of all the extra cost in "fees" from the left pocket of taxpayers) and then said, Psych, ignore all this "asking the people" nonsense, you know they do not want it so you must "lead".

What I expect from "leaders" is to educate, recommend, and promote their view on these controversial issues (hence your confusion over whether to recommend a neutered article). True power is about restraint, not the willful subjugation of the people.

As a postscript, I only mentioned the wake as I did want to post more. I also noticed you asked me for specifics and I gave you several. Your only answer seems to be "Because we say so". The issues are irrelevant, it is the process. Maybe you agree with all these decisions but with this process now established, maybe you will find yourself concerned over an ordinance that gets changed without your vote or an expenditure without any input on your part. This is a relatively new form of government. Now is the time we establish the precedents that will guide future TC's. We must look carefully and think beyond today. In essence that is all I have been saying.
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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby Dennis King » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:44 am

Brian McCarthy wrote:To keep this on topic...

Dennis,

Please be specific with your objective views of my performance as a Town Councilor.

We should be able to stay on topic here.


Besides not addressing each specific comment, I also see you put this in the Sports, work, commute food thread.

Not sure how many people bother to scroll down to read this. This clearly is a town topic but perhaps your placement here was by design
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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby Scott Kepnes » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:42 pm

Dennis,

I think probably most people that pay attention to the forum see that this post is here. I'm guessing Brian put it here because he wants to make sure it doesn't get confused with the other TC topics and just focus on your objective views of his performance as a Town Councilor, which were getting written within the other threads.

I can't be 100% positive, but I bet everyone who reads the general town topics is reading this.

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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby andysinnh » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:39 pm

I look for any section of the forum that has a new post. I found this pretty quickly...
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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby RayWhipple » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:39 am

Not to mention Dennis..the topc clealy says: Other Topics (sports, work, commute, food, etc). Seems to me anything goes here...
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves. " ~President Ronald Reagan.

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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby Brian McCarthy » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:51 am

Yes 'other topics' - that is why it is here.

Dennis it comes down to you do not agree with some of my decisions while on the Town Council. That is your right. Its also my right to develop a 'profile' of your postings and put a certain level of credence to each of them. I'm sure you do the same with my posts. I'm also sure those numbers are quite different for each of us.

I believe I have done a pretty good job of taking the information presented to me as a single Town Councilor and develop a reasonable opinion and make decisions for the entire Town on that topic. Am I 100% perfect? The fact that you disagree says no, but I also realize I put my name forward for a job (drop volunteer from Town Council, it is a JOB), that I knew was going to end up getting some people ticked at me, and some people happy with me. It goes with the title. I need to look over the past three years and see if I believe the Town is at least as good as it was before I came on board. Even with that way of judging things, I will get yes/no answers depending on what you want to focus on.

So, continue your posts, they provide people various levels of stimulation.

And again, I disagree with your views of 'where I went wrong'.
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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby Dennis King » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:44 am

Brian McCarthy wrote:Yes 'other topics' - that is why it is here.

Dennis it comes down to you do not agree with some of my decisions while on the Town Council. That is your right. Its also my right to develop a 'profile' of your postings and put a certain level of credence to each of them. I'm sure you do the same with my posts. I'm also sure those numbers are quite different for each of us.

I believe I have done a pretty good job of taking the information presented to me as a single Town Councilor and develop a reasonable opinion and make decisions for the entire Town on that topic. Am I 100% perfect? The fact that you disagree says no, but I also realize I put my name forward for a job (drop volunteer from Town Council, it is a JOB), that I knew was going to end up getting some people ticked at me, and some people happy with me. It goes with the title. I need to look over the past three years and see if I believe the Town is at least as good as it was before I came on board. Even with that way of judging things, I will get yes/no answers depending on what you want to focus on.

So, continue your posts, they provide people various levels of stimulation.

And again, I disagree with your views of 'where I went wrong'.


Well of course you disagree and I am certainly in the minority here but I believe the role of the TC is important. It is a new political body and as such, everything you are doing now sets the precedents for the future. For the most part, you have done a good job and I do want to thank you and the entire TC for your service. You are right, it certainly is a thankless job. I also feel you waste a lot of time, now that is not a critical statement, just a comment on efficiency. For example, I do not feel it is necessary to have a TC member on all those committees. For Planning, we already have a staff member there. The TC model allows for changes and we have seen many. I think it would be a far better use of your time (which I do value) to have the committee chairmen report to the TC on a biyearly basis (rotating) and an as needed basis when an issue comes up.

As to style, you are good at speaking when you have a point and that is definitely a plus but at times there are some members in the current and past TC that drone on a bit (yes I see the irony but it does take one to see one as they say). I think the chairman can speak for the council in thanking people for their service, and other such issues. It just seems to me that once you are over 4 hours for a meeting, something is wrong.

My biggest issue is in the exercise of power. For example, Tom Mahon puts a warrant article asking the town if the town manager should live in town. Now that is clearly (at least to me) an issue that the TC should handle. This is the latitude I would expect from the TC when interviewing a candidate for town manager. For example, Keith lived in Bedford, if I were a member of the TC and he had a problem selling his home, I would have been fine with him living the next town over (some parts of Bedford are closer to town hall than parts of Merrimack).

Now that is a case where I feel no warrant should be needed but on the PAYT, your "stipends", use of cable funds for renovations, changing an ordinance to allow exceptions (your vote was on a wrong assumption), all of those SHOULD BE SENT TO THE VOTERS TO DECIDE.

These are fundamental questions on the role of the TC, hence while this should be in my original thread in the General town government section but hopefully some will read this buried post.

I was a hospital administrator and although I was allowed to do some things (spend $20,000.00 on my own for example), I still had to answer to people. I know when you have power it is easy to use it. How inconvenient is must be to say, you know, this affects a lot of people in this town, we should put this to the voters. Now a lot of people may have an opinion on where the town manager should live but does that really affect them?
Having to buy a few bags every week does. That in my opinion is a good gauge to just what the TC should administer on their own and what should be an issue for the voters to decide.
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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby TonyRichardson » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:58 am

Dennis King wrote:
Brian McCarthy wrote:Yes 'other topics' - that is why it is here.

Dennis it comes down to you do not agree with some of my decisions while on the Town Council. That is your right. Its also my right to develop a 'profile' of your postings and put a certain level of credence to each of them. I'm sure you do the same with my posts. I'm also sure those numbers are quite different for each of us.

I believe I have done a pretty good job of taking the information presented to me as a single Town Councilor and develop a reasonable opinion and make decisions for the entire Town on that topic. Am I 100% perfect? The fact that you disagree says no, but I also realize I put my name forward for a job (drop volunteer from Town Council, it is a JOB), that I knew was going to end up getting some people ticked at me, and some people happy with me. It goes with the title. I need to look over the past three years and see if I believe the Town is at least as good as it was before I came on board. Even with that way of judging things, I will get yes/no answers depending on what you want to focus on.

So, continue your posts, they provide people various levels of stimulation.

And again, I disagree with your views of 'where I went wrong'.


Well of course you disagree and I am certainly in the minority here but I believe the role of the TC is important. It is a new political body and as such, everything you are doing now sets the precedents for the future. For the most part, you have done a good job and I do want to thank you and the entire TC for your service. You are right, it certainly is a thankless job. I also feel you waste a lot of time, now that is not a critical statement, just a comment on efficiency. For example, I do not feel it is necessary to have a TC member on all those committees. For Planning, we already have a staff member there. The TC model allows for changes and we have seen many. I think it would be a far better use of your time (which I do value) to have the committee chairmen report to the TC on a biyearly basis (rotating) and an as needed basis when an issue comes up.

As to style, you are good at speaking when you have a point and that is definitely a plus but at times there are some members in the current and past TC that drone on a bit (yes I see the irony but it does take one to see one as they say). I think the chairman can speak for the council in thanking people for their service, and other such issues. It just seems to me that once you are over 4 hours for a meeting, something is wrong.

My biggest issue is in the exercise of power. For example, Tom Mahon puts a warrant article asking the town if the town manager should live in town. Now that is clearly (at least to me) an issue that the TC should handle. This is the latitude I would expect from the TC when interviewing a candidate for town manager. For example, Keith lived in Bedford, if I were a member of the TC and he had a problem selling his home, I would have been fine with him living the next town over (some parts of Bedford are closer to town hall than parts of Merrimack).

Now that is a case where I feel no warrant should be needed but on the PAYT, your "stipends", use of cable funds for renovations, changing an ordinance to allow exceptions (your vote was on a wrong assumption), all of those SHOULD BE SENT TO THE VOTERS TO DECIDE.

These are fundamental questions on the role of the TC, hence while this should be in my original thread in the General town government section but hopefully some will read this buried post.

I was a hospital administrator and although I was allowed to do some things (spend $20,000.00 on my own for example), I still had to answer to people. I know when you have power it is easy to use it. How inconvenient is must be to say, you know, this affects a lot of people in this town, we should put this to the voters. Now a lot of people may have an opinion on where the town manager should live but does that really affect them?
Having to buy a few bags every week does. That in my opinion is a good gauge to just what the TC should administer on their own and what should be an issue for the voters to decide.



Unfortunately Dennis,

Nearly all of us have different opinions on where that line should be drawn.

A lot of people feel far more strongly about whether or not the town manager should live in town than they do about Payt for example.
Liberalism - What happens when emotional reactions are confused with and substituted for facts and reason.
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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby Dennis King » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:32 am

TonyRichardson wrote:
Unfortunately Dennis,
Nearly all of us have different opinions on where that line should be drawn.
A lot of people feel far more strongly about whether or not the town manager should live in town than they do about Payt for example.


That may be true Tony but my yard stick is based on impact, where a town manager lives as long as the TC feels it is a reasonable distance is fine with me, it really only affects the town manager but PAYT will affect thousands of people EVERY DAY in this town.

As to your comment about me getting the last word or something like that, I was pointing out where we disagreed which is fine but also on one issue where the info you were basing your opinion on was wrong. Brian made the same mistake but never responded to my question if he would change his vote knowing now that it was not the public that allowed exceptions to the alcohol ban, it was the TC who made that change and the TC who then implemented an exception for a former TC member. The excuse was it was the "will of the people" but in fact, the TC simply changed the ordnance and in my view, since the whole town voted for it, they should be asked if they want it changed.

We are not so far apart on most issues my friend, keep posting Tony. All views need to be heard and perhaps even the TC will give some thought to this discussion in time.
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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby RD » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:38 am

Dennis King wrote:
where a town manager lives as long as the TC feels it is a reasonable distance is fine with me



What?? Nonsense! It should go to a vote of the people. THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!



Privatize!

$20,000 per student!

TC = NAZIS = TYRANNY!!!!

21% over 3 years!!

Billy Mumy 8)

Drinking at public parks... now everyone will do it!

New digs!

PAYT
"If you think teachers are your enemy, you should probably reassess who you think your friends are." - Chris Larson
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Re: Specifics Please Dennis

Postby Dennis King » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:51 pm

RD wrote:
Dennis King wrote:
where a town manager lives as long as the TC feels it is a reasonable distance is fine with me



What?? Nonsense! It should go to a vote of the people. THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!



Privatize!

$20,000 per student!

TC = NAZIS = TYRANNY!!!!

21% over 3 years!!

Billy Mumy 8)

Drinking at public parks... now everyone will do it!

New digs!

PAYT


Well you got one thing right, Bill Mumy is a real cool guy. He also writes great music, mostly ballads and has a radio show which highlights music from the golden era. He is not taken up with celebrity and he has introduced me to several of his friends including Gretchen Bonaduce (Danny Bonaduce's ex wife), Chris Doolan, a mean bass player and the son of James Doolan, the ships engineer from Star Trek, Maria Kazam and so many others. Some famous, others not but nobody cares. Ahh, musicians, gotta love em.
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